The Missing Cross to Purity


Part 20



Text in Light Blue or bold Light Blue can be "clicked" for backup in scripture or detail in writings.

A paper, called ‘The Judgment and Advice of the Assembly of the Associated Ministers. By us, Richard Baxter, etc. Pastor of the Church of Kidderminster.’ Their principles in it follow.

 

Principle. ‘That ever there should be so much to do among Christians, yes, the leaders of Christ's flock, to bring them to so clear a duty, that after all their labor, there is no more done!’

The duty of which this man speaks is to attend services and pay tithes. That is what he thinks makes God happy with a man. But such a man is still locked in his sins of covetousness, sexual lusts, impure thoughts, profane language, godless chatter, pride; which the pastors think makes no difference to God. They tell such a man he is righteous, because he believes.
He who says to the wicked, 'You are righteous;' him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him. Pro 24:24
All the pastors and ministers shall be cursed, who lied, saying that with belief in Jesus, you are righteous while still locked in sin.
In effect, the ministers of today tell their members: don't seek, don't obey, don't fear, don't strive -
saying there is no need, because of grace, your supposed license for immorality and excuse for remaining in sin.
Yet Paul instructed ministers thus: "Rebuke those who continue in sin before everyone, so that others may fear also." 1 Tim 5:20.
Paul also pleaded for repentance: remember that for three years I did not cease warning everyone night and day with tears.]

Answer. You have been those who God never sent, and are found to be such as Christ cried  woe against, and so you have not profited the people at all, and you have not been the leaders of Christ's flock, but have been such as turned against them; that has been your duty; therefore are all the people on heaps.

Principle. ‘That all men must know that we are Christ's followers, if we love one another; for he who said he loves God and hates his brother, is a liar.’

Answer. In this, poor men, you have judged your own selves; for are not debate, and strife, and vain glory, and persecution, and imprisoning, found among you? Are you not like Cain turning against his brother Abel, and slaying and killing him, whose blood cries for vengeance upon you? So it is a proof that you are out of the faith that works by love, in which are the community and love with God, and one with another. And so instead of making up breaches, you are wounding, and bringing confusion, being out of the faith and life that Christ and the apostles were in; so you are in heaps about their words.

Principle. ‘It is not our business to change men's minds, from infidels and heresy to the faith; but to bring the churches of Christ to understand each other to be true churches, which take the holy scriptures for our rule of faith and life, and believe it to be the infallible word of God; and this rule is divine, so our faith is divine; had we but a human rule we could have but a human faith; proud men thrust their opinions into the church's creed.’

Answer. Your business, it is true, is not to change men from infidels and heresy, and to bring them to the faith, so not into the unity; for you bring no people into that, nor to the faith, and you do not bring the churches to know one another in the faith, and the churches of Christ know each other to be true churches, and you whose business is not to bring men off from heresy to faith, know not the church of Christ, which is the pillar and ground of truth, built upon Christ, who is the author of faith. The scriptures, which signify writings, outward writings, with paper and ink, are not, as you say, infallible, nor are they divine, but human, and men get a human knowledge from them; and so writings with paper and ink are not infallible, nor is the scripture the ground of faith, but only Christ is, who was before the scripture was written; this the scripture tells you, and that God is divine; and the scriptures are the words of God, which Christ, the word, ends, who is the author of the faith. Abraham and Enoch had a rule, and had faith, before scripture was written, and the spirit is the rule that leads people into all truth, so said Christ; and you put the letter for the ground of your faith, your rule is paper and ink, that will come to dust, it is human as you call it, and you give it what the scripture does not. And as for your creed that you have learned of your father the pope, the scriptures tell you not that, neither do they teach you the word human; so you and the Papists have crept into the apostles' words, but are out of the life, and are proud and covetous.

Principle. ‘That it is heresy to say there is another rule of faith than the scriptures, and if any are proved to teach any doctrine contrary to scriptures, let the ministers and pastors do their parts to correct and restrain them.’

[Scriptures cannot be the rule because there are 41,000 sects in Christendom, each with a different opinion as to what the scriptures call for a believer to do in order to please God and turn aside his fury.

Answer. You by your judgment have judged yourselves to be corrected by the ministers and pastors, and to be restrained by your own judgment because you have taught contrary to the scriptures; for the scriptures say Christ is the author of faith, and faith is the gift of God. And you say scripture is the rule, but Abraham, and Enoch, and Abel, will tell you they had faith before they had the scripture, which you say is your rule. So, have you not thrown out the true rule of faith, and the giver of it, and put the words in the place? So are you not corrected here by the true pastor, Christ the author of faith? And faith is the gift of God. The apostle did not say scripture was the ground of it, but told look to Jesus the author of it; and the apostles did not turn such to the ministers to be corrected that opposed them, or did not believe them, nor receive them as they spoke, or that went from them. And all they are in the heresy that have not Christ, the author of their faith, which was before the scripture was given forth; and though they have all the scriptures, they are not in the life of those who gave them forth, in which was the unity. And therefore you, being out of this faith and unity, and from the author of it, put the letter for the rule, are all on heaps about the saints' words, being out of the life that they had that spoke forth the scriptures, which were afterwards written and printed. And so you wolves in sheep's clothing put that for the rule of your dead faith, and have no other, and are killing and mangling one another about it, and so death and destruction talk of the fame of the scriptures, and know not the author of faith, nor would have known that there had been a faith, had not the scripture declared it; the priests confess it.

[As Fox authoritatively says: the only faith they know is faith they read about, so they have faith in the Bible. But the Bible says faith comes by hearing, and hearing is the word of God. But what did it say: the word is near you, in your heart and mouth so that you may obey it; that is the word of faith we preach. Rom 10:8,17,Deu 30:11-14. Further on hearing faith:

I only wish to learn from you this: Did you received you the Spirit by the works of the law or by faith in what you heard? Gal 3:2

He who supplies the Spirit to you, and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by the faith in what you heard [said to you]? Gal 3:5

These men posing questions have never heard teachings from the Spirit of God, from the word in their hearts and mouth, from the word of God that lives and lasts forever, from the word of the Lord that endures forever. 1 Pet 1:23,25.]

Principle. ‘We deny not, that in order to teach people and young ministers to stop the mouths of slanderous adversaries, to cure the jealousies of distempered minds, we all are ready in every Protestant church, to give men a full account of our faith, in plain confession: but with this protestation, that the holy scriptures only are the rule of faith; if anything in our confession is found disagreeable to that rule, we are ready, when we understand so much, to disown it, and to correct it.’

Answer. How do you stop their mouths in haling them before magistrates, and casting them into prisons, is this your stopping? Is not this your work? Let the jails and the houses of correction witness how you have stopped their mouths, and convinced opposers! Now, what is truth, and they who speak plainly to you, you call adversaries or slanderers. Now it is not a slander to call a lamb, a lamb, a dog, a dog, or swine, swine; but to say a lamb is a swine, a dog is a sheep, that is a lie; or that a wolf is a sheep, though he has got a sheep's clothing on him, and therefore would be called a sheep that he may deceive, and would not be called a wolf, though his fruits declare it. Notwithstanding his reviling, devouring, having sheep's clothing, and casting into prison, yet he is offended if you don't call him a sheep, or a minister of the gospel of Christ.

No, the truth, the lambs, the sheep cannot betray, but they must speak the truth to you; and though you devour them, and tear them, they will not tear you in return; and though you wolves have on the sheep's clothing, you cast into prison because they will not feed you. Did ever the lambs do so, the ministers of Christ? Were not those fed in his pasture, who followed him, and knew his voice, and did not lack? But how have you cured the jealousies and diseased minds all this while? You have wounded them, made them sick, and filled them full of jealousies; therefore the people are broken into heaps and sects, which are the fruit of jealousies one of another. And how have you been ready, you who are called teachers, who are apostatized from the apostles, to render to every Protestant church a full account of your faith in plain confession, when many hundreds have been moved of the Lord God to come into those places called churches, and ask you a question, you have cried, ‘Take him away, magistrate; to prison with him; he has broken the law, neighbors;’ and this has showed your faithlessness. Many have been moved to come to the steeple-house, and look the priest in the face, and he has cried, ‘take him away, I cannot go forward, I cannot speak as long as he stands there;’ and here you have shown your faithlessness again, lacking the weapons, the shield of faith.

But you say again, they must own the holy scriptures to be the rule of faith. So then Christ or God is not the author! What rule might Abraham, and Abel, and Enoch own? Was not God the author of their faith? Is God not the same now? Did the Pharisees not have the scriptures? Did the Pharisees not have a rule, who stood against Christ the author of faith, and who is the rule that the saints looked at? Are not those of the faith, of the faith of Abraham, which was before the scripture was written? Was the scripture the ground of this? No, the ground of these was what was before the scripture was written, and they were in the faith that stood in God that gave forth the scriptures; and so here both you and your churches are corrected by the scriptures. For all may speak one by one in the true church; but this authority you have thrown down, you who are those who preach for the fleece, and the filthy lucre, and gain from your quarters, who are called of men masters, suing for tithes, going to law about earthly things, which the apostles did not, but rebuked such; and so you are corrected by the scriptures, and you are judged with the life of the prophets, Christ, and the apostles; and both church and ministers have departed from it.

The agreement and resolution of several of the associated ministers in the county of Cork, [in Ireland] for the ordination of ministers. Their principles in it as follow.

Principle. ‘To minister the spirit, it is not promised to teach anything but what Christ has spoken. John makes it an infallible trial of spirits to convince opposers and stop their mouths.’

Answer. Many may have Christ's words, all that ever he has spoken [and recorded in the Bible]; but if they do not have the spirit of Christ, they are none of his. Opposers that oppose the spirit may have Christ's words, and the light that comes from them; so the spirit that gave forth the scriptures, tries the spirits and lets men see whether they pervert Christ's words. For Christ said, that the false prophets would get the sheep's clothing; therefore could antichrist and the false prophets try spirits? No, they put those to death who were in the spirit; and he who has the spirit of Christ, can tell who wrongs Christ's words. And why did not the ministers of Ireland, who had Christ's and the prophets' and apostles' words, stop the mouths of Edward Burrough and Francis Howgill, but allowed or caused them to be banished out of the nation. You looked upon them to be opposers, who are the servants of the Lord; and yet you were not able to stop their mouths, though you had all the sheep's clothing, neither were able to resist their spirit; which shows your spirit, and that you are not fit to send forth ministers, nor make ministers, nor try ministers. And the apostle does not say, that the letter is the only rule or trial; but if people have not the spirit of Christ, they are none of his, and if they have not Christ in them they are reprobates. And we do witness that the spirit is come, whereby we are ministers of that, not of the letter. For the spirit that once established circumcision, the same spirit ended it again. Now the Jews that tried by the letter, judged the apostle to be a deceiver. And those that have the sheep's clothing, and have not the spirit of Christ Jesus, they are crying, ‘lo he is here,’ and ‘lo he is there.’

Principle. You tell us of ‘a sacrament, and that the world lies in wickedness, in gross Egyptian darkness, and of false apostles and Jezebel, making herself a prophetess to teach and seduce, and men loving pre-eminence are to be called masters.

Answer. In this state you are called of men masters, loving pre-eminence, Jezebel like, usurping authority, setting up yourselves to teach, keeping your fasts, persecuting and banishing the righteous, you are in the steps of the false apostles, in spiritual Egypt, in gross thick darkness, rejoicing with the world that lies in wickedness, telling people of your sacraments, which you had from your father the pope, and the false apostles your forefathers, who had got up before the apostles' decease, and so you are judged with the life of the apostles and Christ, and by those who are in it; which shall answer the witness of God in you all. And the wickedness of the world declares your fruits and that you have not profited the people at all. And your Jezebel's doings has declared itself, and your loving pre-eminence, being called of men masters, which the apostle judged, and Christ cried  woe against; these marks are found in your foreheads, that all that can read the scripture, may read you to be out of the life of Christ and the apostles.

Principle. ‘Unless some preacher of righteousness is then living to warn the sinful world of their wickedness.’

Answer. Those who as are the preachers of righteousness, who warn you and the sinful world of their wickedness, you banish; these are your fruits.

Principle. ‘The purest grain has its chaff, the best needs a fan to cleanse them, the best needs a Nathan, all flesh is liable to fly-blows. To run without office and power argues presumption.’

[The only grain (man) with chaff [sin], has not been burned with the unquenchable fire of the Holy Spirit.

I indeed baptize you with water to repentance; but he who comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to carry. He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire;
Whose winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Mat 3:11-12

This man proves he does not understand the scriptures; neither has be been purified by the Holy Spirit's unquenchable fire.

David needed Nathan to cause him to admit his sin of adultery with Bathsheba, and the murder of her husband. But this man admits he is still locked in sin, so he has no need of a Nathan; what he needs to find a job, stop teaching and preaching, and listen silently to the Holy Spirit's instructions.]

Answer. The wheat that is gotten out of the chaff, has not its chaff, that comes into the garner: and such as are cleansed, need not the fan to cleanse them. ‘They who are born of God do not commit sin,’ for the seed of God remains in them, that they cannot. And all need not a Nathan, all are not adulterers; and the flesh of Christ which sees not corruption, is not fly-blown: and the saints of Christ are of his flesh and his bone; and you run without the power that the apostles were in, so you judge yourselves by the presumptuous ones.

Principle. ‘The sheep are apt to wander; ordinary ministers receive their ministry from the Lord. Paul was chosen directly by God, Stephen was not chosen directly by God.’

[Yes, Stephen was chosen by God because: 1) he was already full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, and 2) he was chosen by men whose speech and actions were controlled by the Holy Spirit; the Apostles then laid their hands on Stephen and those men chosen, which Apostles obviously were controlled by the Holy Spirit too. These ministers want to think that since they were chosen and authorized by men, (who freely admit their speech and actions are not dictated by the Holy Spirit), they are equal to Stephen or Phillip.]

Answer. In the cloudy dark day, the sheep wandered, who were made a prey of by you, who seek for the fleece. Ezek 34. But the Lord will seek them, and gather them, and feed them atop of the mountains. And the sheep of Christ hear his voice, and follow him, so said Christ; so they do not wander. And they who receive their ministry from the Lord, are above all your ordinary ministers of the world made by men. And Paul was made directly, and all the ministers of Christ and God that are in the spirit, it makes them directly. But all you, since the days of the apostles, your kind has got the sheep's clothing, and ravened from the spirit of God, are indirect.

Principle. ‘Such are in the self-conceit that are against ordinances and sabbaths.’

Answer. Everyone that is in the spirit of Christ sees him who has blotted out the hand writing of ordinances, and triumphed over them, and therefore cannot touch them; and such as are come to the body of Christ, see the end of new moons and sabbaths. And such as are out of the body, and do not see that, are crying up their ordinances and Sabbath, which the body of Christ comes to end, who is the substance and end of them, and was before they were. Now antichrist cries up what the apostle preached down, who are blind and see not the body, and set up sabbaths of their own making, and keep markets and fairs on that day which the Lord commanded, and call it Saturn's day [Saturday], which was the Jews' Sabbath, which was given to them as a sign; but the body is Christ.

Principle. ‘Vice may be nourished with the milk of virtue, the gospel ministers; and we find that the harvest is great, and the laborers are few. We conclude with a few words to the readers of our principles and intended practices.’

[To say, Vice may be nourished with the milk of virtue, is to say evil can be increased with good. The man shows a fundamental ignorance of good vs. evil.

Answer. The readers have viewed your practices and principles both, and tell you who they are corrupt, the milk of virtue does not nourish vice. This was not the ministers of Christ's language; the milk of virtue nourishes the babes; and the laborers that have been sent among you from the Lord God, you have banished out of the nation. But if one comes in his own name, him you will regard and receive; but if one come in the name of the Lord, him you put out. So you will not have the Lord, nor his Christ, to reign, neither his servants to labor in his vineyard.

Principle. ‘Ministry is like a mighty tree, whose fruit the Lord has appointed for the healing of the nations.’

Answer. But your and the Papists' ministry has been gotten up since the days of the apostles, that brings nations all into heaps, and into blood, and does not heal the nations, but wounds, and burdens, and kills, and casts into prison, as this your fruit declares, who casts into prison such as you do no work for.

Principle. ‘To the law and to the testimony; pray to the Father of lights that he would enlighten us with his truth, and show us the way that he would have us to walk in; and pray for us who watch for your souls, as those that must give account.’

[Why would a minister need people to pray for them to be enlightened with the truth, unless that minister did not know the truth, in which case he is an imposter, posing as a minister of truth, Christ.]

Answer. ‘The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy:’ and ‘the law is light,’ and the law and testimony was before Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and before the Epistles were written, and the Revelations, which outward books you call law and testimony; but the scripture said, ‘The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy;’ and ‘the law is light.’ Prov 6:23. Are you those who are the makers of ministers, and ministers, who watch for the souls of people, and yet do you tell people to pray to the Father that he would enlighten you with his truth, and show you the way that you may walk in? How can you present souls to God, you who do not know the way, and are yet to be enlightened, and yet to have the way shown to you, that you might walk in it? Is this the conclusion of all you ministers in Ireland?

Now I say, Christ has enlightened every man who comes into the world, which is the way, and though your darkness cannot comprehend it, yet you pray that he would enlighten you. John said, he enlightens every man that comes into the world, and that is the true light. Have you the light to seek, and the way to seek, and truth to seek, and yet are you watchers for souls? And you who are called ministers say, the soul is human; yes, [you include] the soul of Christ; the soul of man is appetite, and lust, and pleasure, and human, from the earth, from the ground. Is Christ's soul from the ground, with appetite, lust, and pleasure that war against the soul, as in those who are in the unreasonableness? You who have the light to seek, truth to seek, and way to seek, are in the earth, and so give the soul the name of what comes from the ground. Now the soul is immortal; ‘God breathed into man the breath of life, and he became a living soul.’ It is what came out from God, who has all souls in his hand; that is his power, which goes against him that does evil. And Christ the power of God, which is immortal, is the soul's bishop, from where it has its nourishment, and which is able to save the immortal soul.

And as for all the rest of your ignorance and nonsense in your book, which comes from your confused earthly spirit, who are found in the nature, spirit, and stock of your father the pope, who has apostatized since the days of the apostles; with all the rest of your stuff, which is but fuel for the fire, in the day of your account, the witness in all your consciences shall answer it.

John Stillom's book, called ‘Margin Notes.’ His principles as follow.

Principle. He calls it the ‘Quakers adoring their own light, magnifying the light of nature.’ ‘The church is ashamed of your doctrine and walking,’ said he.

Answer. The Quakers' light is Christ the truth, in whom they worship God; which light was before natural lights were; and this the church owns, and is not ashamed of; in which stands the doctrine, by which light the church is gathered up unto God the Father of light; but the imitated churches in the apostasy are ashamed of it.

Principle. ‘Not any man knows him,’ speaking of Christ, ‘to be God, until he find him in scripture,’ and said, ‘as deep things as the spirit has revealed, they are all in the scripture.’

[Reading and talking about food is not the same as eating food. Reading and talking about God is not the same as knowing God, from revelation. No man knows Christ or the Father except by revelation, except he to whom the son reveals. To know God is to be taught by God, to be convicted by God of sin, to be convinced of the righteousness of Christ, to be judged, and to be united with him, to become flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bone.]

Answer. Many knew God, and knew Christ, and yet had not written scripture to tell them of those things, as Enoch and Abel; and many again have scripture speaking of God and Christ, and yet do not know God and Christ, and do not find him in scripture. As for instance, the Pharisees who had the scripture, knew not God and Christ, and had not life, until they came to Christ the scripture speaks of; and many things the spirit did reveal which were not written in the scriptures, and were spoken to the saints.

Principle. ‘John does not mean not that there was any substantial truth necessary to be known to salvation, which is not revealed in the written word; but the spirit ordered the copies and mysteries of the gospel to be contracted within a narrow compass of lines.’

Answer. Many knew their salvation, as in the days of Noah, Enoch and David, who had not the written scriptures. And though people have the copies that speak of the gospel, and of the mysteries of the gospel, put together, and compassed and contracted into lines, yet they do not know the gospel, nor the mysteries of it, nor the word, though the scriptures testify of these things; and the Pharisees did not, who had scripture; which scripture does not tell us of written words, but that the word is Christ and God, which was in the beginning before words were given forth. And the gospel, and salvation, and the mysteries of it, are known by the spirit, and the light which comes from Christ Jesus, and none knows them but by that.

Principle. Stillom adds, ‘not only heart rising prophecy, nor breast prophecy in the mind, but written down in books. The apostle excludes not heart prophecy, so he includes scripture prophecy; but till the day-star did arise in their minds by reading and heeding of the scriptures; that is plain meaning.’

Answer. The scriptures were given forth by prophecy, and the spirit of it, and no man knows them but by the same spirit; and the apostle did not exclude heart prophecy; and the day-star does not rise in the heart by men's reading and heeding the scriptures in their own wills, and having them written down in books; but as men come to the life and spirit that they were in who gave them forth, and heed that, with that they heed scripture, and know scripture, and with that they know the day-star, and Christ who is the end of them; and so men must come to take heed to the light that shines in a dark place, before they know the day-star arise. For the Jews had scripture, and did not heed that; for the spirit of prophecy within does not deny any title of the scripture without. And in your principle you have confounded yourself, who say, ‘Not heart prophecy, heart rising, breast prophecy;’ and yet you say, ‘the apostle does not exclude heart prophecy.’ And thus you with your new names, and your words, darken counsel and knowledge; but the children of light see you.

[No man can claim to have the day-star arise in his heart from reading scripture, but tens of thousands of early Quakers claimed to have the day-star arise in their hearts by giving heed and obeying the word of God in their hearts, which they sought to listen to by waiting on God, in silence, with humility, to hear, and obey.]

Principle. ‘The Father, word, and spirit, are to justify the word trinity, not to make the holy spirit and the saints one person.’

[ What this man is trying to do is defeat the scripture that says the father, word, and spirit are one spirit, hoping to preserve the fiction of the three person trinity, never mentioned in scripture. Below is the full scripture:

For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7 [The words in italics are not found in earlier manuscripts.]

George Fox has made the excellent point before that the Father and Jesus cannot be separate persons because Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." John 10:30.

Answer. The word trinity is not in the scripture, but in your old father's book, the canon book, the pope; and the Father, son, and spirit are one, and the saints are in the spirit; and those who are joined to the Lord, are one spirit. And the scripture does not tell us of three persons; but, as I said before, the old canon book of your father, the great apostate, the pope.

Principle. ‘The light that Adam was qualified with before the fall, which every man has a spark of since the fall, was and is given from the creation by things that are made.’

Answer. The light Adam had before the fall, did not come by the creation, nor by the things that are made; if it were given from the creation, it comes by nature. Your statement is contrary to scripture; for God made man in his image, and placed him over all the creatures, and gave him an understanding capable of his law, and to know dominion; but when man lost his dominion, he transgressed his law; and that light that he had before the fall, was of God, from him that made all things.

Principle. ‘The scripture is the means of regeneration. If the blind lead the blind, what will follow? It is proof sufficient against absolute perfection in this life, as Adam and the angels.’

[Since the man points to fallen Adam and fallen angels as proof against perfection, his logic could just as well have said the devil proves against perfection. A better example for him to follow would be Christ, Paul, and John, all of whom preached perfection.

He ignores the plainly stated scriptures that speak of perfection being the purpose of the ministry, that is to present every man perfect in Christ. By denying perfection, he shows he is a false prophet, and is one of the unperfected disciples whom Christ said were blind and would lead you into a ditch:

Then he spoke a parable to them, "Can the blind lead the blind? Shall they not both fall into a ditch?
The disciple is not above his master, but everyone who is
perfect ( purified, restored to the spiritual image of God, specifically authorized, and perfected) will be like his master. Luke 6:39-42]

Answer. They who had the scriptures, and were out of the life that gave them forth, were the blind, and what followed then? And though Adam and the angels fell, he who is in Christ, the perfection of God, shall never fall, as also said the apostle.

Principle. He said, ‘It is ignorance that said, the light that makes sin manifest, condemns sin.’

Answer. And what makes a man's sin manifest, and he hates it, that condemns him; and he is ignorant that sees not Christ's doctrine, and believes not in it.

Principle. ‘To deny that sin dwells or remains in all the saints upon earth, has been the Quakers' doctrine, the consequence whereof is to disclaim all godly sorrow for sin dwelling in them.’

[Godly sorrow is to produce repentance, which if under command by Christ to change, results in mortification of sin, as the Apostle aptly describes; but the writer seems to be totally ignorant about repentance resulting in the death of sin, evidently ignoring any scriptures that don't fit his created Jesus and faith from reading.]

Answer. It is the Quakers' doctrine to deny all sin dwelling in the saints upon the earth, and to know Christ who destroys the devil the author of all sin; and the saints come to witness their joy and pleasures for evermore over their sin, and the body of it put off, and a kingdom which stands in joy and peace in the Holy Ghost, and the godly sorrow before they come to this; and they do know victory over their sin; and Christ had the godly sorrow, who had no sin, and that many of the saints know.

Principle. ‘His word is not his spirit.’

Answer. The word [Jesus] and the spirit are one, which word was before the written words were given forth by the spirit of God, in which word they all end; and the word lives, and abides, and endures forever, and that is spiritual. And so the mystery of iniquity is found in your doctrine who are blind, and read blindly, not with the spirit which was in those who gave forth scriptures. You are found a false prophet, in the steps of the Pharisees, one of the masters that Christ sets the woe on their heads, who are ravening with the sheep's clothing upon your back to deceive; but now the lambs and the sheep have discovered you, who have gotten up since the days of the apostles into their words, not into their life, with that you are judged. Whereas you are offended because Edward Burrough speaks chapter and verse, the spirit that gave forth scriptures will lead to speak it all over again without offence, but to the evil doers.

Principle. ‘And if your teacher cannot but be public, how will you find him in so private a place as your beds?’

Answer. The spirit that leads men to speak forth publicly, or to minister to themselves and others, the same is a private teacher to them on their beds, as with David, whom the Lord instructed in the night season; and what the minister of the spirit does minister unto, is a private teacher to every particular in his own particular. The anointing which abides in people, John said, was their teacher, and they needed no man to teach them, but as it did teach them, and they should continue in the son of God and the Father. And here was public and private teaching, which you, being blind, cannot see.

And all your lies and heap of confusion which you would blind people with, shall stand upon your head; for the sun is risen, and the mist is gone and going. In the day of your judgment, the witness in your conscience shall answer.

Philip Taverner of West Drayton, in the county of Middlesex, his principles as follows, in a reply to a book to Edward Burrough, whom he in scorn calls Quaker.

Principle. ‘Who are you who judge another man's servant? Such who lord it over the faith and consciences of their brethren, a spirit wholly disowned by the apostle. Not that we have dominion over your faith; and in this sin is that of Christ to be understood. Call no man your father upon earth, neither be you called of men master; that is, have no men's persons in admiration, as to count them your oracles in things of faith.’

Answer. Such as serve the man of sin, are to be judged. We judge that man [Satan] and servant both. And such as are spoken of in the Romans, who judge another man's servant in the truth, standing and falling to his master, everyone in his measure, such we do not judge; but every one shall stand or fall to his master, who are following rules about foods, and drinks, and days, that the life is leading through. And you who are called of men master, who are counted great oracles among the people, you lord it over men's faiths and consciences both; therefore so much blood has been shed through you, and so many cast into prison by you, who lord it over men's faiths and consciences, being, Pharisee like, called of men master, who would have dominion over the apostles' faith, and over the saints' faith, who are ‘admiring men's persons because of advantage,’ to help you. And this people see, how you and the Papists, since the days of the apostles, have lorded it over men's faiths, as your jails, inquisition, and prisons may witness, how you would lord it over men's faith and conscience. Those that cannot give you tithes, you will cast into prison; are you not here lording it over men's faiths? Do not your practices show it, and so another spirit than the apostles' is in you, who have gotten up since the days of the apostles. And such as are born of God, and begotten of him, cannot call any man father upon the earth, such as are born of the immortal seed, heirs of the world which has no end.

Principle. ‘We through patience and comfort of the scriptures have hope.’

[This man and his followers entire hope is to escape Hell. They don't believe in accept the true hope, which purifies and saves from all sin. They have the hope of the hypocrites instead, which hope will be dashed and crushed, when their covenant with death shall be annulled.]

Answer. He who has Christ in whom the scriptures end, has the hope and comfort of the scriptures, Christ who was before the scriptures were given forth. He who has not Christ Jesus does not have comfort.

Principle. ‘The scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation.’

[the holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith that is in Christ Jesus, 2 Tim 3:15]

Answer. Without the faith the scriptures are not, for the Pharisees had the scriptures, and were not wise unto salvation, but were out of the faith, and did not know Christ the salvation.

Principle. ‘Fear has its rise from faith and hope in God, by the means of Christ which is made known in the scriptures.’

Answer. The scriptures testify of faith, of God, of fear; but people receive not hope, nor faith, nor God, nor fear, from the scriptures, but from God, as they did that gave forth the scriptures, who feared him. For many who had the scriptures, were out of the true fear of the Lord, and called Christ a devil, and were from true hope and true fear, though they had the scriptures given forth from those who were in hope and fear; but their ears and eyes were stopped to that of God in them, and such are never like to receive God and Christ until their ears and eyes are open to that of God in them.

Principle. ‘If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us; and there is not a just man upon earth that does good and sins not; and in many things we all err. And the state is not attained in this life, but that men shall be groaning under weaknesses. The highest attainments of saints, is but a spark, but the dawning of the day; that highest enjoyments are not to the attainment of desires.’

[Every man has sin to start, but sin is removed from those who go to God and obey his commands and teachings, which they hear and see in their hearts. This man references scriptures that speak of sin being in all men, (before it is removed), as evidence that sin can never be removed, while ignoring the many scriptures that speak of a sinless state, perfection, purity, and holiness. Why does he ignore them? Because he thinks himself to be more spiritual and knowledgeable than anyone else, concluding that a sinless state is therefore impossible; and ignoring the early Quakers' telling everyone they can be rid of sin and how it happens. His pride clouds his reason and ability to accept scores of scriptures. To deny the scriptures is tantamount to admission of being a false prophet.

Answer. It is the truth that lets men see they have sinned, and lets them see they have sin within them, and it brings them to confess it, and forsake it; and ‘the blood of Jesus Christ, the son of God, cleanses from all sin.’ Then ‘he who is born of God does not commit sin, neither can he, because the seed of God remains in him: herein the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil,’ which makes him to roar. He who is born of God does not commit sin, and cannot, because he is born of God, he is not born of the devil, nor by the will of man, nor by flesh and blood. And what Solomon said, in Ecc 7, speaking of the just man, is, that he does no good under the law, by which [deeds of the law], said the apostle, no flesh is justified. But he who comes to Christ, the end of the law, his faith gives him victory over sin, whereby he becomes dead to it, and comes to the end of the law; which faith the just live by, by the life and the faith of the son of God. And the apostle said in the epistle to the twelve tribes, ‘In many things we offend all, and if any man does not err in his words, he is a perfect man, and able also to control his whole body.’ Mark, in many things we offend all; but we are come to the one thing, Christ Jesus, the end of the many things, and in him there is no sin. And he sins not who is in him, who put an end to the many things that must end and change. And the saints were come to the day, further than a spark, and were the children of the day; and they witnessed the night was gone; and some again were not come to the day-star, according to their growth. And the saints again were made free from sin, Rom 6:22. And had put off the body of sin, by the circumcision of the spirit. Col 2:11. And they were complete in Christ; and they witnessed the kingdom of heaven, that stood in joy, and peace in the Holy Ghost, and so were not groaning always. And the saints witnessed the marriage of the lamb and Christ in them, and their bodies to be the temple of God, and attained the end of their desires, and so were not always only desiring something more, but they witnessed their bread from above, which they who ate of should hunger no more, nor thirst any more.

Principle. ‘The light which is in every man is but darkness, being compared with a revelation of Christ in the saints. Our justification has its rise from what Christ has done and suffered for us, not from what he has done in us. Justification and sanctification are ever distinct in their nature, distinct one from the other; justification is not sanctification, nor sanctification justification, but two things, really distinct in their nature.’

[His justification is imagined from reading scriptures about Christ's life and believing them. His seeking is ended because he now thinks because he believes the scriptures about Christ, he is justified. But he who relies on Christ to show him the evil in his heart, to teach him, and to destroy the sin in his heart, that man knows Christ in person and has witnessed his salvation, justification, and sanctification by experience.]

Answer. The light which every man that comes into the world is lightened withal, is Christ, and this light reveals Christ, and is the saints' light, and this light is condemnation to the world, which hates it. And no man knows justification, but as he knows it wrought within, from Christ. And no man knows the seed that was offered, the sacrifice of the whole world, but as he knows it within, through the faith; and they who are of the faith are of Abraham, they are of the flesh of Christ, the flesh of him that suffered. And if men have not Christ within them, they have not justification; and though they may talk of him without, and have him not within, yet such are reprobates that have not Christ within them, reprobate from Christ, from justification and sanctification both, and are of the generation that caused him to suffer. And justification and sanctification are one, not distinguished the one from the other in their natures, but are one in nature, not two things really distinct in their nature, but really one; for Christ our sanctification and justification, is he who sanctifies and justifies; they are one in nature; Christ is sanctification and justification both, and you are rebuked who makes two of them, and distinct, when they are but one thing; the same that justifies, sanctifies.

Principle. ‘If the fulfilling of the righteous law in us is justification, then Christ died in vain. Justification is the direct opposite to condemnation; what makes a change in the heart of the creature, is sanctification and justification; faith does not save nor justify by virtue of any worth or excellence found in it, nor merely because Christ is the object of it.’

[Christ died for all men, so that we do not have to die for our sins. But that does not negate the requirement for us to fulfill the law, which law is fulfilled when love is perfected in us. Christ did not die so that we could live in sin, rather he died to show us the way of the cross to be freed of sin while on the earth, culminating in the baptism of the Holy Spirit that burns up the last of the chaff. Those who do not have sin destroyed while on the earth, must have their part in the lake of fire in the next life; to also become rid of sin, but to then live without their souls, in a lower state of heaven. Christ died a horrible death on the cross to show us the degree of obedience required to the Spirit of God's commands to us, which is our cross; and if we obey the Spirit's commands, we will be delivered from all sin and enter the kingdom of heaven.

So, where is your cross, oh man, that Christ said we must pick up and follow him six times; which cross he told us before he went to the cross himself, as the example for us to follow and crucify our selfish spirit, our old man, our flesh, our godless human nature, on the cross? You and all of Christendom ignore the cross, don't understand the cross, and so do not have the power of God to be changed, nor do you have the power of God from the true gospel, nor do you have the power of God through Christ within you, to become sanctified and justified by Christ in you. With no power, Christendom's religion is in words, presumption, and pretense; and is only a form of godliness without the power.

And, oh man, you who speak of Christ dying in vain: when you ignore the cross, and pretend you are saved by reading words, you have made his death count for much less, at least for you; and perhaps the greatest tragedy, all those whom you have misled into the ditch, as all blind, unperfected teachers do.]

Answer. He who fulfills the righteousness of the law in us, is Christ the justification; hereby men come to know him to redeem them from under the law, and they are led by the spirit; and they know he is their intercession, and that he died not in vain: and he ends the law, who fulfils it. And he is the justification to everyone that believes. And this is known in us, that believe to the justification of it, whereby a tittle of the law is seen not to be broken, whereby the body of Christ is seen, which makes free from the law. And Christ is the light that condemns him that hates it, that will not come to it because his deeds are evil, nor believe in it; and ‘this is the condemnation of the world, that light is come into it, and men love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil.’ And he who believes in the light is justified from all things from which the law could not justify him, and comes not into condemnation, but lives in what does condemn; so these are one, and not directly opposite, that does condemn the unbeliever, and justify the believer. And people are saved and justified through faith, and faith is the gift of God; and there is an excellence in it, and a worth, because it comes from Christ, and from God who is the author of it, in which faith men please God, and are justified and are saved through and by this faith, as the scripture witnesses.

Principle. ‘Faith does not save or justify by its virtue, but by the gracious good pleasure of God who has appointed faith.’

Answer. What God has given to men as his gift, in that faith there is virtue, and the grace is known with which men are justified and saved, and there is virtue in the gift of God; and so through this faith he knows the purpose of the Lord, and his counsel, and Christ is the author of this faith, and no man is justified unless faith is received [by revelation], nor wise unto salvation, but through faith in Christ Jesus.

Principle. ‘The ministers in England in many places are no better than wolves in sheep's clothing, and the ministers taking what the states allow them of particular persons, this is not preaching for hire, divining for money.’

Answer. The ministers, who are so called in England, have gotten the name, but are found the ministers of unrighteousness, and are wolves indeed in sheep's clothing, out of the lives of the apostles; for how are they tearing the lambs before courts and into prisons for speaking to them, whom they do no work for! What greedy dumb dogs are these! How do they worry the people! Where is there any one of them, that has the sheep's clothing, if the people do not put into his mouth, but will tear them into courts, and dens, and prisons? How unlike the apostle are these, who would not use his power often times to eat! Yourself are found in the number of them. And do not the states and particular men set you out so much a year for your preaching? Is not this preaching for hire, and divining for money? Do you not know how much a year you must have? Is not this preaching for hire? And if they do not give you money, so much a year, you will not divine, and yet will you make people believe, that you are not diviners for money, and preachers for hire? Alack for you! You cannot hide, and are not you here judged with the life of Christ and his apostles to be his hirelings that will flee? Whose sheep are none of your own, who care not for the sheep, except you make a prey upon them! To all people who are in the fear of God, your lives are discovered to be contrary to the saints. Let the states and the great men take away your maintenance, and we shall find but few diggers, thrashers, and planters among you, who are a company of idle men. So the judgment of the apostle is come upon you: that those that would not work, should not eat.

Principle. ‘Christ made use of the scripture to resist the devil.’

[The devil made use of the scriptures in an attempt to deceive Christ; does that make the scriptures evil? The scriptures are wonderful, to furnish the perfect man of God completely. But the scriptures are terrible in the hands of blind guides, unperfected disciples, whom Christ warned us would lead us into a ditch, and told us to leave them.

Any minister who denies Christ's perfecting ministry is a false prophet, and a minister of Satan, even if unwittingly. ]

Answer. In Christ the scripture ends; and the devil who was out of the scriptures, is left out of the scriptures. So Christ, who was before scripture was, bruised his head. And as for the rest of your stuff in your book, it is not worth mentioning, and it will come upon your own head; the witness in your conscience shall answer it.

Edward Skip, teacher, who said that he is a servant in the gospel services, his book called ‘The World's Wonder.’ His principles, as follows.

Principle. ‘Who said there shall be false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall show you great signs and wonders, insomuch, if it were possible, they should deceive the very elect.’

Answer. Christ said false prophets should come, Mat 7:15,Mat 24:11,24, and John saw they were come, 1 John 4:1,1 John 2:18-19 they went forth from them. In the Revelation all that dwelt upon the earth went after them, and when they had gotten a head, they killed the saints; then power was given to the beast over all tongues, kindreds, and nations, and what whored from the spirit of God sat upon the beast, and all nations drank of her cup, and she has corrupted the earth, and made the inhabitants drunk, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her. And the woman fled into the wilderness, and the man child was caught up unto God. And the whore sits upon the waters, and the waters are people, and nations, and multitudes, and tongues, and these have been the mystery of Babylon, with all their merchandise, which have deceived the nations by their lying signs and wonders. And again, the judgment of the great whore should come, the man-child should be brought forth into the world to rule the nations with a rod of iron, and the whore should be taken and cast into the fire, who had set as a queen, and had seen no sorrow; and the beast should be taken, and with him the false prophet that sets up the lying signs and wonders, and with him the devil that deceived the nations, who is the man of sin, that the apostle before his decease saw coming up, as in Thessalonians. These should be taken and cast alive into the fire, (and the Lamb and the saints shall have the victory), that they should deceive the nations no more; for the elect it is impossible they should deceive, with all their lying signs and wonders which they have gotten up since the days of the apostles. Christ said they would come, which the disciples saw were come before their decease, which signs the world have been after, but which have not been able to deceive the elect; for the elect reigns over all that, and over you and them, among whom you are found. Now has the Lamb and the saints the victory, and the tabernacle of God is with men.

Principle. ‘I have presented to you my new-year's gift, and desire your judgment towards it to me.’ And you said, ‘The Lord had delivered your soul from under those observances that you might stay and direct an unstable soul of those horrible delusions and mysterious deceits, for false apostles, translating themselves into apostles of Christ, deceitful workers, and Satan's ministers, transforming into the ministers of righteousness!’

Answer. In this you are among the false apostles and ministers of unrighteousness, deceitful workers, transforming yourselves into the apostles' and Christ's words, and into the true ministers' words, whose souls are under horrible delusions and mysterious deceits, under the observances of the world, who would beguile the soul that is not established; but light is broke forth, that few you can deceive. And your new-year's gift is judged, and proceeds from Cain, and is his sacrifice from the earth; for the apostle saw such as were transforming themselves into the false apostles and false ministers, and he brings the saints to the light that shined in their hearts, to ‘give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus,’ which you deny. So the false are transformed into their words, and are judged with their spirit, who brought people to the light within, and you bring them from it; so, from what should give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus.

Principle. ‘The devil is called the prince of darkness, because he lives in the darkness, as to the apprehension of divine love, an enemy to all the image of God, which is light and purity; and the devil transforms himself into the likeness of God, under a fair pretence, heavenly words, self-denial actions, righteous conversations.’

[Who is more likely to be from the devil: a person who says sin is unconquerable in this life, but Jesus forgives all, or the person who says whoever is born of God does not sin and cannot sin? (The first person is all the opposers of the Quakers in this book, while the second person is the Apostle John.

Who did Jesus tell us to mistrust: perfected disciples, or unperfected disciples?

Who did Jesus tell us to beware of: those who look outwardly righteous, or those who are cleansed on the inside?]

Answer. This is like your fruits; you have deceived the people; but your love is to the devil, who is out of the truth? Does not Christ come to destroy him and his works? Can any apprehend the love of God, but they who are in the truth? And the devil cannot transform himself to be like God, not in his image nor in his righteousness, that is out of truth; and his conversation that is out of truth is altogether unrighteous, and is but in the pretence of self-denial, but is not the thing; though he and you may get the words that are heavenly, and stand against the light and image of God, and purity itself, for all you are of the devil that deny the light that enlightens every man that comes into the world, for you come not into the truth which the devil is out of, nor into the pure citizenship which is in heaven, nor into purity.

Principle. You said, ‘you have many occasions offered by the Quakers upon your poor weak and sinful heart; the Lord has filled my heart with moderation in giving my own once uncomfortable experiences.’

Answer. We believe you, that your heart is weak and sinful, but a weak and sinful heart is not filled with moderation. Your experiences which are uncomfortable, are not the experiences of the saints, for the saints' experiences are comfortable, and their hearts are pure, and filled with moderation; and the Quakers will torment all sinful and corrupt hearts, for such the Lord is against, who take his words [from the Bible] into their mouths, and so are [presumed and claimed to be] his saints.

Principle. You say, ‘you hate hypocrisy when you live in the light, life, and power of the first Adam, and because the Quakers say they know my conscience better than myself, I see they are acted through delusion; I am able to speak this truth from my own heart, which is better known to me. I do know that a natural man may make a large progress in the gospel profession and conversion; and what the Quakers call backsliding, is my turning to my God.’

[Contrary to scripture: the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14. And discernment takes place by revelation to the eyes and ears of the heart: Because that which may be known of God is revealed in them; for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:19]

Answer. In the light, and life, and power of the first Adam, in which he was in the beginning, before the fall, you are not; and the apostles knew the state and condition of Jews, and Gentiles, and people, better than they did themselves, and so do the Quakers that are in their spirit; and this is not delusion. You do not know your own heart as you ought, nor the truth; you must first come to the light that enlightens every man that comes into the world, which is the truth. And a natural man does not make a progress into the gospel, nor come into the conversation of it, while he lives in the natural estate. And the God you are turned to, is the god of the world, that all hirelings and diviners for money, and teachers for filthy lucre turned to, that went forth from the spirit of the apostles, and prophets, and Christ, and backslid from them, and so went from the true God; and you serve  the god of the world for love of your money, and see if you will not look upward, and downward, and curse your god.

Principle. ‘I would have all the world to observe the Quakers, how that antichrist has cast that blindness upon their understandings, for their reproving men sharply, and rebuking them, crying  woe to the hypocrites; it is the devil's policy to keep close to the scriptures. George Fox used arguments to people to look for the glorious way, and discovery of the divine light and power to be brought forth among all the children of the Most High. Oh! this delusion of mystery Babylon.’

[When a man's speech and conduct is controlled by the Holy Spirit, it is the Holy Spirit who reproves and rebukes through that man's voice and lips. Until a man is controlled by the Holy Spirit, he is not to judge. Paul told Timothy and Titus to rebuke with the authority of the Holy Spirit. He who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one because it is God who is doing the judging. Even Jesus did not judge, speak, or act without the Spirit's specific prompting.

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, John 5:30
whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak. John 12:49-50
the Son is able to do nothing of Himself (of His own accord);
but He [the son] is able to do only what He sees the Father doing, John 5:19

He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory,
but he who seeks the glory of the One who sent him,
that man is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. John 7:18.

Any man who speaks of God or Christ without the Spirit's specifically supplied words is seeking his own glory,
and he is estimating himself to be greater than Christ, for Christ said: The disciple is not above his master, but everyone who is perfect [purified, restored to the spiritual image of God, specifically authorized, and perfected] will be like his master. Luke 6:40.

The preachers of Christendom stand condemned for seeking their own glory and then accepting pay for their worthless words; when to even charge for true words of life like Balaam, spoken from the spirit of God, is expressly forbidden by Paul, Peter and Jesus. Seeking their own glory, the preachers of Christendom speak from their carnal minds, the nature of death, and preach their vain opinions from the imagination of their evil hearts.]

Answer. Here is your confession, for where the spirit of God is, it does rebuke, reprove sharply, and tell those who are hypocrites, the woe is to them; and as to the Quakers, antichrist cannot blind them, they are come from under his power and authority; but you are they who cannot hear reproof. And the Lord may send a man, as he did Philip, to such a place, and he not know what he shall do, nor whom he shall speak to, till he comes to such a place. And the devil is out of the life that gave forth the scriptures, though he and you who may get them, may pervert the words, but not understand their true meaning as they speak them; and you call good evil, and evil good, for the children of the Most High wait for the most glorious discovery of divine light and power, which delusion and mystery Babylon are out of; and so the Quakers have come to what antichrist is ravened from, with that they comprehend him.

Principle. And you say, ‘These people, that you call the Quakers, will send most railing accusations against the pillars of the church of Christ.’

Answer. That is false; but antichrist's church and his pillars, which are waters, which you call tongues, your original, and which John calls waters, the Quakers do judge according to truth, and declare it in full power and majesty, and can make it good; which is what you call railing, but which they deny; for a company of greedy dumb dogs can never have enough, that will prison and persecute men till death for speaking to them and for money; such are apostatized from the true church, are a false church, who have transformed themselves into the true church's words. But now the true church has discovered you to be the false, apostatized from the true, who have reigned since the days of the apostles.

Principle. ‘I see no conviction the Quakers have wrought by their speaking, or any subjection of fear or love, or any such thing wrought by them. And to tell such that are praying, reading, or in meditation, to say it is the power of the first Adam; Oh! mystery of deceit, the deceitful unfolding of antichrist, to say that Christ said the hour is coming, and now is, that neither at this mountain, nor at Jerusalem, shall the Father be worshipped, but he who worships him, must worship him in spirit and in truth!’

Fox and the Early Quakers had three testimonies to the validity of their true Christianity.

Answer. Thousands in the nation may witness the work the Quakers have wrought, and thousands are convinced that you are the opposers of the truth, and the antichrist has come up since the days of the apostles; and all your praying, reading, and meditations, is only the first Adam's state in the fall, where the mystery of deceit is, for you have not yet come to own the light, Christ Jesus, the second Adam, that enlightens every man that comes into the world, and so you are the antichrists, standing against Christ the light, the truth, and so have not come into the worship of God in the truth and in the spirit, but are crying up that at your mass-houses is God worshipped, as the Jews said of the temple at Jerusalem, and the mountain of Samaria; but Christ said, not at the mountain, nor Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth, and so we say, not at your mass-houses, nor at Samaria, nor Jerusalem, nor the mountain, but God has sought us to worship him in spirit and in truth, and therefore you rage, you who hate the light.

Principle. ‘They reckon it their perfection and happiness to be deprived of all: the spirit does neither so act or so teach; and I was kept from this temptation, and they who are overcome by it, are brought into bondage. A vain deceitful waiting for a power, when the apostle said to the Thessalonians, you must pray without ceasing, and not quench the spirit. They must cease from their own words, and wait for the direct striving and working of the spirit, as they fancy it.’

[The man also continues to ignore scripture: So likewise, whoever does not forsake all that he has cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:33.

He calls a waiting for power a vain, deceitful thing. To pray from your carnal mind is to quench the spirit. This man does not understand that we are fallen creatures with the spirit of Satan ruling our thoughts, words, and deeds, until the Lord destroys our mind and hearts, giving us a new mind, new heart, and new spirit. This does not occur with saying Jesus is Lord, water baptism, or eating bread and grape juice; it only occurs by crucifixion of the selfish, demonic spirit within a man on the inward cross of self-denial.

The carnal mind is enmity to God. Rom 8:6-7. Prayers from the carnal mind are an abomination. We must mature so that the Sprit of God supplies our words of prayer: Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. Job 37:19. With more light, more spirit, we can pray in the Spirit and worship in spirit and truth.

He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory,
but he who seeks the glory of the One who sent him,
that man is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. John 7:18.
]

Answer. This you call fancy, who say the spirit of God does not teach men, to be deprived of all things; yes, I say that you must be deprived of all things before you come to happiness; and you are in the bondage, and in the temptation, who have not forsaken all things, and come to Christ the one thing; and you praying and prophesying, and not waiting for the spirit and power to pray withal, are in the fancy, and following your own spirit, and out of the perfection of Christ.

Principle. ‘It is blasphemy to say we must fill up the sufferings of Christ.’

[More contradiction of scripture, relying on the fable: Christ did it all, we need do nothing.

For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps. 1 Pet 2:21.

For if we are dead with him, we will also live with him. If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. 2 Tim 2:11-12.]

Answer. And so you are unlike the apostles, and have not drunk the cup of the wrath and judgment of the Almighty, and that you must drink before you come to know the seed of God come from under all the power of wickedness in you, and that is the world; and Christ, who bore the sin of the whole world, and felt it, and was under it, was offered, and is over it all, and makes his enemies his footstool.

Principle. ‘The false interpretation of the enemy,’ he said ‘that every man's work must be tried with fire, what sort it is,’ and ‘you shall hardly gain a speech of one sort or other, sometimes, from the Quakers,’ and this you calls ‘dumb devil.’

[That man's work will be exposed. For the day [of the Lord] will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will try and test every man's work, of what sort it is. 1 Cor 3:13.

The whore tells her followers that they will escape judgment. Yet, in Revelation Jesus addressed church in Thyatira, saying: I will give to each of you according to your works. Rev 2:23.

For more evidence that every man's works will be judged, click to see the many scriptures.]

Answer. And thus you show where you are, who have not known a time to be silent, before you did know a time to speak. And the dumb devil has been found among yourselves, you priests; for when many of the Quakers have been moved of the Lord to come to speak to you in your pulpits, you have proven yourselves to be the dumb devils, turned your backs, and have gone your ways, and spoken never a word to them. And your works and all men's shall be tried by the fire, and that is not perverting scripture, as also said the apostle. And you never have passed through the wrath of God, but it is yet to come, and the sufferings of Christ you do not know.

Principle. ‘And it will be a lie and delusion, for the spirit when it sanctifies the hearts to go about to tear their hearts out of their bodies, when David's bones were broken, and his flesh would scarcely cleave; it is far from me to think that this was under the apprehension of wrath; shall a man think that he suffered for his sanctification?’

[Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 1 Pet 4:1-2.

Tribulation
is the wrath of God that every man must go through, before he is through with sin, before he knows peace and the light of life.]

Answer. The spirit of God tears out the old hearts, and so, before man is sanctified throughout he must know suffering, and his wretched state; yet sanctification brings peace in the end, and life. And David's condition you are ignorant of, and know not; for he was sensible of the wrath before his sins were removed as far as the east is from the west, and he had joy and peace; but trembling and quaking has become a mock and scoff among you, for there is a trembling and rejoicing, and there is a trembling in the sorrow.

Principle. ‘When the Quakers are commanded many times to go, they have not that leisure to dress them; this is a hard master surely, not Christ, therefore Satan, for the Lord is not likely to do things ignorantly to deceive his servants. And they are brought to fast from all manner of food three nights and three days, most feeble, wretched creatures, contrary to the law of nature; so they are not capable of bearing the glory of God, so ministers of antichrist, and they are made to deny their callings and possessions. I would eat more than I desired, because I would give no offence.’

[The opposer to the early Quakers shamefully ridicules fasting as wretched, they [the Quakers therefore] are not capable of bearing the glory of God; but Moses, Jesus, and Paul did fast; as well Jesus gave us commands and guidelines on fasting and the reward of fasting:

Moreover when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear to men to be fasting. Truly I say to you that they have their reward.
But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face;
So that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but only to your Father who is in secret; and your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you openly. Mat 6:16-18


When the disciples could not cast out a demon from a boy, they asked Jesus why, and he said: " this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting." Mat 17:19-21.

and Paul speaks of fasting: Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 1 Cor 7:5.

Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Tim 4:1-2.

The opposer brags that instead of fasting, he eats and drinks more than he desires, which Ezekiel shows was one of the sins of Sodom:

Behold, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: pride, overabundance of food, and much idleness, Eze 16:49.

And so, this man opposing the early Quakers, along with many others in Christendom, lies with no shame. ]

Answer. In this you have showed your ignorance of the scriptures, and Christ; for he who is on the house top, let him not come down to put on his clothes. And they who went on his message were not to take two coats. When they went on his message, they did not go to dress themselves with boot-hose-tops, and double cuffs, and ribbons, and rings, as the priest does; and what God does, it is in his wisdom, beyond the ignorance of mankind, and they who receive it must be in his fear. Christ is not a hard master, as you think because some go, not dressing them in their apparel, who go to do his command; but you who are wicked and slothful, have so judged with the wrong and false judgment. And many of the saints have fasted till they might number their bones; and Christ fasted, and this was not contrary to the law of nature, and did not make them incapable of receiving the glory of God; neither was it antichrist. And you who are of him, can eat and drink more than you have desire, because you would not offend others, and that is contrary to the law of nature. And the saints forsook their callings and possessions, and the world; but you priests run into great possessions, which you get out of poor people's labors; so you are like the false apostles and antichrist, not like Christ and his apostles.

Principle. ‘They have a gloss put upon Christ's words to his disciples, when he tells those who they should take no care what to speak, it should be given them in the same hour. And of their going naked, I never knew the mind of the Lord discovering by any of his servants, neither under the old nor new covenant. And these dreamers go to a place, and do not know what to say till they come to the place.’

[This man cannot imagine hearing the Spirit tell him what to say, and he ridicules those who do as dreamers. Yet Jesus himself spoke nothing but what he was told to say:

whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak. John 12:49-50.
He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of the One who sent him,
that man is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. John 7:18

Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, said the LORD, who steal my words everyone from his neighbor.
Behold, I am against the prophets," said the LORD, "who use their tongues, and say, 'He said.'
Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," said the LORD, "and tell them, causing my people to err by their lies and by their lightness; yet I did not send them or commanded them. Therefore they will be of no benefit at all to this people," said the LORD. Jer 23:30-32
The prophet, who shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, .. — that prophet shall die. Deu 18:20.]

Answer. Philip was sent to a place, and then it was told him what to say, when he came to it. And he was not a dreamer, but you are, who goes without a command from God, and runs when he never sent you, and follows your own spirit. And they who speak as the spirit gives them utterance, and moves them, take no thought, but it is given them in the same hour; and you who are out of this, are in the glosses. It was the mind of the Lord for Isaiah to go naked, [for three years] and to strip himself in Egypt and Ethiopia, as many are moved of the Lord to go naked among you of spiritual Egypt and Ethiopia, and to put off their clothes; which is a figure to you, that the sheep's clothing must be taken off of your ravening wolves' backs.

Principle. You say, ‘For the present you do not apprehend anything more, but that the devil shall transform himself into an angel of light. And there are hardly a people to be found that cry out more against sin, and the appearance of sin, and unrighteousness, than they do, as far as I know, or have heard, to declare them to be carried forth as ministers of righteousness.’

Answer. Your apprehension is vain, and judgment false; for the devil transformed himself into an angel of light before the apostles' decease, and so is transformed in you, who have the words, but out of the life; for the devil could not transform into the apostles, while they were in the life. And you are antichrist that are crying out against sin and unrighteousness, and live in it; but the Quakers are the enemies of sin, and the friends of souls, who are the ministers of righteousness, and declared so to be in all your consciences, to be in the life of all the prophets, apostles, and Christ, and they do see that you are transformed into their words, but out of the life, and with that judged.

Principle. ‘I am persuaded the Quakers do not tell a lie, that Satan he will either choose to do some things, as healing some infirmity, and turning water into wine, and the like; this is a deceitful way enough, that all the belly-gods in England may become Quakers; this labor of mine may make thousands to refuse their errors and delusions, because it can be done through a great light that is in antichrist.’

Answer. The Quakers are in the truth, and out of the lie, and they see you are in it, for antichrist is turned from the light; and the devil is not he who turns water into wine, and heals the sick and infirmities, nor antichrist, but the true Christ; where did you read that they turned water into wine, or healed the sick? Therefore, you and you all, by your delusions and errors, labor to deceive thousands. And you have cleared the Quakers from being in the error or delusion? For you say, ‘they dare not lie,’ then they are not of the devil, who is the ground of all error and delusion. And you priests are the greatest belly-god sin the nation, for you devour up the tenths of the nation, of poor husbandmen, and so you cannot endure the power that makes to tremble, so cannot endure the salvation.

Principle. ‘What if one of these Quakers should be sent to a blind leader of the people, and a man is not able to reply a word, and it may be, a good scholar.’

[What difference does being a good scholar make? Christ did not select good scholars for his disciples; he primarily selected fishermen, of whom Peter became head of the church in Jerusalem. Christ did not select a single educated scribe to be one of his disciples. Yet this false prophet wants us to believe that being a good scholar is somehow important. The Holy Spirit educates Christ's true ministers, not Bible colleges or seminaries; and the Holy Spirit is not to be found there either. There they labor trying to understand the scriptures, studying Greek, Latin, and Hebrew, in hopes of more understanding; which study is a testimony to the absence of the Holy Spirit in their learning. For if the Holy Spirit were teaching such men, they would not need to search for understanding in the other tongues; the Holy Spirit is capable of opening the scriptures in any language or dialect on the earth.]

Answer. Those you in scorn call Quakers have been moved by the power of the Lord God, to come against such as you are, leaders of the blind, though you have been great scholars, and when you have not been able to resist the spirit of the Quakers, but found naked from the spirit of the Lord, you have cried to your rulers and magistrates, to help take them away, cast them into prison; and these have been your weapons, and antichrist's court and fort, and the wolves in the sheep's clothing, strong against those who are in the apostles' and Christ's power, and life, and doctrine; and now you are discovered.

Principle. ‘The crucifying the son of God afresh, that is, Christ without, or else in the heart of another, not in his own that does it,’ and you say ‘you engages your affections to the seekers, because of their attainments.’

Answer. He who crucifies Christ afresh to himself, first crucifies him in his own heart, before he crucifies him in another's heart without him; and it is the affections that you are joined with to people, and not with the spirit, to the notional attainments; for had you been in the spirit, you would not have written such a book as this is against the truth; or had you answered the principle of God in the seekers, or minded the life in them, or in your own particular, you might have lived in unity with God and scripture. But where are you turned now, except to your great fat parish income? You have stolen some words from the seekers [the saints and prophets of old], and you now sell them to poor people to make a trade of them.

Principle. ‘You say you would have all people take a right way in opposing the Quakers, with a strong understanding in the scriptures to reason with them.’

Answer. All your understanding and your reasoning, if you get all the scriptures, are not able, being out of the life that gave forth the scriptures, to resist the spirit of the Quakers, which is what was in those who gave forth scriptures, though you may resist and oppose like Cain, Core, and Balaam; but woe unto you!

Principle. ‘I shall give my consent, if the Quakers transgress our laws, they might have double punishment; and if you will not believe the truth that comes from them, I hope you will believe it as it comes from the mouth of God; with speed forsake the Quakers' society wholly, public and private.’

[This man denies the mouth of God speaks, and claims the letter that kills is the mouth of God. Since there now are 41,000 different opinions to what scripture has said, then unless there is a clear voice speaking from God still, he has left us in an insolvable mess. But he obviously hasn't, and he stands ready to teach all truth and all things to any humble soul that will stop teaching errors, stop taking the fleece from the sheep, confess their ignorance, get quiet, and listen. But he hates the Quakers so much, without the shame of sin he shows partiality between them and all others, wishing them to have double punishment for any violation of the law.]

Answer. Here is your confession again, and judgment, and your injustice; would you have double punishment inflicted upon those who break the law? Do you say that the Quakers are the mouth of God, and if you will not believe the truth as it comes from them, believe it as it comes from the mouth of God; and yet must people wholly forsake the society of the Quakers, public and private, and call this overcoming strong questions? This is the strengthening of strong questions, overcoming you who are in the deceit, who are to be judged.

Principle. ‘That God is all, and in all.’ [He disputes this.]

Answer. The scripture said so, 'God is all, and in all, and through you all, and over you all,' blessed forever; and this is not to justify any profaneness nor wicked actions, but it is you who would not have the Lord to have room in your hearts, that would not have him to be in people, nor have him there to reign.

Principle. ‘I have some time told the Quakers, that I did conceive the design of antichrist was to bring them in the end to work all manner of uncleanness; I now judge they are carried from one degree to another to act righteousness.’

[This man denies that man can become clean through the power of God. Now when a group of men and women claim that God has made them clean, he attacks them as unclean. He writhes and twists like the serpent in his convoluted logic.]

Answer. Here you have confounded your imagination, and have showed you have followed your own spirit; and your false prophecy has come to an end, and you have proved yourself to be a dreamer, for they are in the righteousness, which comprehends you.

Principle. You say, ‘The Lord does not regain any of our age to walk so, they who are called the Anabaptists, and yet you own them.’

Answer. Do you own what the Lord does not require? Do they practice what the Lord does not require? And so you have given judgment upon yourself and them both.

Principle. I having also communion with my former society, which is broken off through the mysterious working of antichrist, I would have spared my pen for a few lines, but for the sake of a very few in the nation; and I have not time to write one line, from first to last, twice; expect not from me an army of reasons and arguments.

Answer. You had better have spared your pen and tongue both, than have written what you have written, whose communion is with the mysterious working of antichrist, and there are but few in the nation but will see your work is but fuel for the fire. And abundance of stuff you have in your book, which is not worth mentioning, but will fall upon your head. In the day of your judgment the witness shall answer.

Priest Tombes, Baptist, of Leominster. His principles as follows.

Principle. ‘The words John 1:9 , enlightens every man, are meant of a natural life or light.’

[Scripture says: God is light, 1 John 1:5; he is certainly not natural light.

Jesus said: I am the light of the world, he who follows me shall not walk in darkness and shall have the light of life. John 8:12. Jesus is certainly not natural light.

Isaiah quotes God saying: I will keep you and give you for a covenant to the people, for a light to the Gentiles.
It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel; I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation to the ends of the earth. Isa 42:6, 49:6
.

Natural light is not the new covenant, but Christ the light, who enlightens every man, is the new covenant.}

Answer. Christ that enlightens every man that comes into the world, this light is not natural, neither is he natural that is called the power of God; who was before all natural lights, sun, moon, and stars, were made; and so this light enlightens every man that believes in it, and is their condemnation that does not believe in it; that is above all natural: for the light that ‘enlightens every man that comes into the world,’ that all men might believe, is not natural life or light, but of the divine nature, which is above nature; for ‘in him was life, and the life was the light of men,’ and he is the salvation to the ends of the earth. And in this you have shown your ignorance, and do not preach what people are to believe in.

Principle. You say, ‘the ministers of Christ may seek what they shall have by the year, and are not to go up and down to towns, and eat and drink what is before them, as those did.’ Luke 10:7.

Answer. We do believe such apostate ministers from the doctrine of Christ and his apostles as you are, who have thrown aside the doctrine of Christ, and trampled it under your feet, and set up yourselves in great benefices, who live in a town, do not go up and down to eat and drink such things as are set down before them; but how are you then those that Christ said he would be with to the end of the world? How do you then observe all things that he has commanded? For ‘lo I am with you to the end of the world,’ and they were to observe all things that were commanded. And how are you here out of Christ's doctrine? Are you not the wolves among the sheep, with sheep's clothing, deceiving the world, but not the sheep? How are you those who Christ said were to go into all nations? And ‘lo I am with you to the end of the world;’ and this is not your work as you say, and so you are judged to be out of the apostles' practices and Christ's doctrine.

Principle. You say ‘that in 1 Cor 9:14, is meant of natural food, which is to be obtained by civil laws,’ and ‘our declaring against such shepherds as in Isa 56:11 does not touch you,’ and ‘that you have received the gospel from the epistles of Paul,’ and ‘that you do not acknowledge revelations, tremblings, and quakings.’

[He who denies revelations knows nothing about God, with no knowledge of God: Because what may be known of God is revealed in them; for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:19

Knowledge of God is not reading about God, not hearing someone talk about God, for God is known by revelation in your heart, where you hear him and see him teach you about sin, righteousness, and himself.]

Answer. The saints, and the ministers of Christ did not, by civil laws, or the laws of the nation, get maintenance, neither does the scripture you reference say they did. Read it over again, and let all sober people read it. Regarding the gospel you say you have received from the epistles; the epistles do not give you the power of God, but the true gospel is the power of God. Here you have showed your ministry is of the letter, and of man, and not from God, for the gospel is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes, preached to Abraham before the epistles were written; and this gospel is everlasting, not received from epistles. And Paul was an apostle, not of men, nor by men, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ; and you who deny revelation deny the son of God, and the grace that was brought by revelation, and deny knowing the Father; for none know the Father, but they to whom the son reveals him. And you have denied the fear of God, and the Lord's secrets; for ‘the secrets of the Lord are with those who fear him,’ they are revealed to them. You who deny trembling and quaking have denied your salvation, and the apostle's doctrine, and denied yourself to be a minister of Christ; for the apostle says, ‘work out your salvation with fear and trembling,’ and you who deny trembling, deny salvation that is wrought out by it. Isa 56:11 does judge you, for you are one that seeks your gain from your quarter, a greedy dumb dog, that can never have enough, as witness your eggs [1/10 of all agricultural produce in his parish was supposed to be given to him], and how you haled [sued] before the justice for not receiving of them.

Principle. You say, ‘you do not uphold such as Mic 3:5,11 speaks of.’

Answer. Are you not one that divines for money, who prophesies and preaches for money? If people will not put into your mouth, you prepare war against them; as I said before, witness your eggs [that you demand all in your parish give you 1/10 of all eggs produced], and they that give you eggs, you will say they are good churchmen, and thus they stop your mouth with eggs, but if not, you have them before magistrates.

Principle. You say, ‘If any of the church, joined to me, leave me because I take maintenance, it will be their sin.’

[Here is a man threatening his congregation with sin if they leave him because he demands tithes, and yet he tells them they are locked into sin until their death with no hope. So, if they are locked into sin until death, and if he tells them their sins make no difference to God because they believe in Jesus, then what does one more sin matter, considering they are supposedly excused from thousands already. This is a classic example of shameful lies on top of lies.

Notice, these false prophets all say that the law is dead and works are useless and futile, yet they then turn around to demand their tithes and threaten those who fail to pay them with chargeable sin under the law that is supposedly dead.

The only laws that died were the laws of ceremony, ritual, sacrifices, tithing, days, foods, etc. The moral laws regarding lying, stealing, covetousness, sexual immorality, honoring mother and father, loving your neighbor, and loving God did not die - for they are required to be fulfilled by the royal law:

[For all the law is fulfilled in one command, even in this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself, Gal 5:14.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this: Thou shall not commit adultery, Thou shall not kill, Thou shall not steal, Thou shall not bear false witness, Thou shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Rom 13:8-10
.

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Mat 7:12, Rom 13:8-10, Gal 5:14, Lev19:18 - strive to always obey this.

Jesus was asked, What must I do to inherit eternal life? Jesus replied: keep the commandments. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness. Honor your father and your mother; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself. He listed the moral core of the law that is on every man's heart. Then he told him he must sell his possessions, give to the poor, take up the cross, and follow him.

Notice, there is not a single mention of tithes in the above verses describing what one must do to please God.]

Answer. The true prophets left the false prophets, and the true apostles did the false, such as taught for covetousness, and means, and declared against them; and such as go out from the spirit go into the earth, and such as come to the spirit, come from the earth; and teaching for gifts, rewards and hire, as you Tombes do, upon whom is your old garment.

Principle. You say, ‘you deny an absolute degree of perfection in this life.’

Answer. In this you have denied the work of the ministry, which is for the perfecting; and do none come to perfection in a degree of perfection? Do none come to Christ who is perfect? Do none come to the spirit? Who come to the spirit, come to be perfect; for who come to the spirit and to Christ come to what is perfect; they who come to the kingdom of heaven in them, come to be perfect, yes, to be perfect men, and that is above any degree, and thus you are blind and ignorant of what the scriptures declare.

Principle. ‘You would have it proved that they are false prophets that declare the true prophets' words.’

Answer. They who make merchandise of the words of the true prophets, are the beast, false prophets, and great whore, but they who speak freely as they have received [from God] , are the true prophets and true apostles, and such in all ages were distinct from each other, known by the spirit of the Lord. They who had received from the Lord what they spoke and declared freely, and they who had got the saints' words, and had not received them from the Lord, but spoke them forth for money, these were distinct one from another.

A paper I have received, the title of which is, ‘A form of Sound Words, containing the first principles of the oracles of God, framed for the use and benefit of the inhabitants of two adjacent parishes in the county of Nottingham.’ Their principles in it as follows.

Principle. ‘When for the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again, which are the first principles.’

Answer. How can you teach the first principle of pure religion, when you deny the light that Christ has ‘enlightened every man that comes into the world with?’ And this may whole England witness, and so your doctrines that you have taught them, and commandments, are such as perish; being not men sent of God, you have not profited the people at all.

Principle. And you say, ‘False teachers this age is too full of:’ and ‘that you may henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro,’ and you entreat to ‘accept a word from us your ministers; for what profits a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul.’

Answer. Who have tossed people more up and down than you, and carried them about with your windy doctrines? The world has been too full of you, the multitudes of the false teachers, since the days of the apostles. Who are more for gaining the whole world than you, who call yourselves ministers? Have not and do not your fruits declare it to the whole nation? In prisons, there lie your fruits, for where may people see the priests' fruits but in prisons? And how your congregations are all on heaps, when any come in the name of the Lord among them! You have shown that your exhortation has not profited the people at all.

Principle. ‘We entreat you to take heed of that dangerous deceit, in hoping to be saved by your own works, or in anything in yourselves.’

[The only thing that counts is faith energized by works of love. Gal 5:6. The new man in Christ is created to do works of love according to the promptings of God. We are all to be judged on our works and words. Not by works, speaks to works of the law: ceremonies, sacrifices, sabbaths, foods, rituals, feasts, etc.; which are of no value.

But this man wants to rely on the fable that there is nothing for a believer to do, a doctrine originally promulgated by Martin Luther, who had disdain for the books of James, Revelation, Jude, and Hebrews — deliberately ignoring them to create his Christ and God from the subset of the scriptures he used to form his doctrine.

Repentance and carrying the cross, the inward cross of self-denial, to be obedient to the Voice of the Lord, to do his will, and not your will, is a work; but not a work of the law; it is a work of love for God, which forms Christ within you, the hope of salvation and glory. Paul said repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:20. ]

Answer. He who believes [enters the rest] has ceased from his own works, so is not saved by them, and he who believes is saved, and this belief is within him, in Christ. And the engrafted word is able to save the soul, and Christ the savior is revealed and manifested within.

Principle. ‘Out of the holy scriptures, Old and New Testament, which are the word of God, we may learn the true knowledge of God.’

[He totally contradicts scripture: Because that which may be known of God is revealed in them; for God has shown it to them, Rom 1:19; God has shown it to them by revelation. He shows us by revelation not scriptures. Since this man doesn't believe in revelation, he admits knowing nothing about God, according to the scripture he worships.]

Answer. The Jews had scriptures, and did not know God nor Christ, nor did know themselves. The scriptures are not the word, but the words of God, and so you teach parishes, and your children to lie, as you may read in Exodus, ‘God spoke all these words, and said.’ And ‘whoever shall add to these words,’ in the book of Revelation. And Christ said, ‘my words.’ And would you make people believe the scriptures were but a word, when they say they are words? And Christ is the word, as in the Revelation. And so what brings to the knowledge of God is the spirit; and the son reveals him, Christ Jesus, who is the light which ‘enlightens every man that comes into the world,’ and every man that comes into the world receiving the light, Christ will reveal the Father to him.

Principle. ‘There are three persons, Father, son, and Holy Ghost. And we entreat you to take heed of the natural Popish conceit.’

Answer. The word three persons is the natural Popish conceit, which is out of your father the pope's canon-books, where you have learned it. But Father, son, and Holy Ghost, that is sound scripture; but you cannot take it as it speaks, but you must add three persons to it, so brings the plague upon you.

[The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the same spirit, which manifestation is not a separate person or a separate substance. Whatever it is beyond the word manifestation, is beyond our earthly experience to describe. The saints are one in spirit with God and Christ, and they are unique manifestations of the one spirit: so that through the church (the body of Christ, which is the saints) the complicated, many-sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere. Eph 3:10.

Principle. ‘There are many that have share in the salvation purchased by Christ.’

Answer. Christ was the offering for the sin of the whole world. And he gave his body for the life of the whole world. And he came a light into the world, and enlightens every man that comes into the world; he who died for the sin of the whole world, was an offering for the sin of the world, that all through this light might believe. And so many are condemned for not believing, what they should believe in condemns them.

Principle. ‘God works faith in us inwardly by his spirit, and outwardly by his word.’

[What is outward faith, other than words in a book? Faith is only inward in a man. But this man doesn't understand what faith is. Faith is authored by Jesus, and such authoring only occurs by revelation - which this man doesn't believe in, and so he has no true faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, which Word in your heart and mouth so that you may obey it; that is the word of faith we preach. Rom 10: 17,8, Deu 30:11-14. Faith is a mystery, and mysteries are only disclosed through revelation, which he doesn't believe in — so faith remains a mystery to him, though he has a kind of faith in the Bible being true, but which is not the necessary purifying or saving faith.]

Answer. Here you go about to make the spirit and the word not one; is not the word spiritual? Is not Christ called the word, who is the author of the faith, the mystery of which is held in a pure conscience? Is not this word of faith in the heart?

Principle. ‘The whole word of God in general is summed up in the apostles' creed.’

[The Apostles never the Apostles' Creed, yet Apostles' Creed first occurred in 390 AD, several hundred years after the apostles had died. It evolved from the Nicene Creed, proclaimed by Roman Emperor Constantine, who poisoned his son, boiled his wife to death, and led an army of Christians against the dissenting Donatist Christians. Contantine made exile being the punishment for dissent to the Nicene Creed. The Apostles' Creed occurred ten years after the Roman Emperor Theodosius had made his brand of Christianity the official version of Christianity, also outlawing all others. Thus the church fornicated with the kings of the earth, as prophesied in Revelation. The following is the common version of the creed:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended into hell. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

For this man's shallow religion, the creed covers it all. But the holy depths of the scriptures are not contained in the creed for the creed speaks nothing about:

As you can painfully see, the missing elements are many, too many. All of Christendom departed from the original faith and has become a hollow shell or form built around believing in a few facts of Jesus's life and death, and a few heathenish rituals invented by the Roman sect. James aptly described today's Christianity:

You say you believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe, and tremble. James 2:19.]

Answer. Where did you get the word creed, unless it was out of the mass-book, and pope's canon-book? It is not out of the apostles' epistles. And the apostles' epistles, and the saints' writings, declare of the word [Christ], and say it was in the beginning, and say the letter kills; for the Jews had the letter, and did not find the word in it, but stood against it; and you have the letter, the apostles' words, but you do not find the word in it. It speaks of the word, the word was in the beginning, and in the heart, before the words.

Principle. ‘Brethren, be perfect, be of good comfort; no man can be made free from sin in this life; God's children have sin in them.’

[What kind of minister tells us to be perfect and then to be of good comfort in our sins? He is deliberately trying to cheapen the command of Jesus to be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. This minister might as well say, be perfect as the devil is perfect, when the devil is the antithesis of perfect, author of sin, and the worker of sin. You cannot be a little imperfect just as you cannot be a little un pregnant. You are either pregnant or not; you are either perfect or not.

Christ is the antithesis of sin, separate from sinners. How can anyone be expected to be welcomed into heaven with sin still in their heart? The devil and his rebelling angels were expelled from heaven, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden for their disobedience, and Jesus does not change and will not change. There is still no tolerance for evil in heaven.

Christ died so that we do not have to pay the penalty for our sins. But we have work to do, to go to Christ and have him show us the evil in our heart and then remove it by his grace, redeeming us from all iniquity, purifying himself a special people with a zeal for good works. Tit 2:11-14. Until we are pure, there is no hope of being in the company of heaven.]

Answer. The devil's doctrine, and his ministers' doctrine, is, that men shall not be perfect while they are upon earth; but you say they must be perfect, and yet must have sin, that makes them imperfect. And the children of God that were born of God, did not commit sin, neither could they, because the seed of God remained in them, and they were made free from sin, and had put off the body of sin, as in Acts 26:17-18, 1 John3:8, 5:18, Luke 4:18-19, John 8:31-32,36, Rom 6:18,22, Col 3:5, Tit 2:13-14.

Principle. ‘No man is able to keep the commands of God perfectly; we break them daily in thought, word, and deed. And in all our best duties we are unprofitable servants.’

[He says no man is able to keep the commands of God, we break them daily. And so does the devil, but evil men and the devil breaking commands do not disprove Paul being perfect, John being perfect, Peter being perfect, or thousands of the early Church being perfect, or thousands of early Quakers being perfect.

The man's pride prevents him from seeing the hope of becoming pure, clean, perfect, and holy.]

Answer. Here you show that you do not love God, for he who loves God keeps his commandments, and love fulfils them; and in all your best duties and deeds you are but unprofitable servants, in that we do believe you. So your preaching and praying are unprofitable, so you judge yourselves out of your own mouths; singing, instructing, praying, all are unprofitable, and you are the slothful servants, who are reprobates to every good work. But the saints prayed, preached, and sung in the spirit; such were profitable, that loved God and kept his commandments, but you who do not love God, do not keep his commandments; so your fruits are unprofitable that keep not the commandments of God. And there is your mark that you do not love him.

Principle. ‘The law is a rule for a believer's life; we must attend unto the sacraments.’

[The word sacrament is not to be found in the entire Bible; such absence being our first clue to the origin of sacraments not being from God, but an invention of man. The word is derived from a Greek word meaning mystery and was used in military oaths of pagans. As with many practices of the pagans, the Roman and Greek sects incorporated these heathenish practices into their religion, making themselves more popular and drawing more tithe-paying followers, (follow the money).  There are many so-called sacraments, all of which have their origin in the Roman sect, including: communion, baptism, confirmation, penance, anointing the sick, holy orders, and matrimony.]

Answer. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness' sake unto every one that does believe; so Christ is the rule who ends the law to believers; and your sacraments must go again to the common-prayer-book, to the mass-book; the scripture does not teach us those words, as sacrament and creed, but the old mass-book; you are running to it, and so leaving the scriptures. So you are judged with the life of God.

Principle. ‘Who are ordained lawfully, are called to the ministry.’

[One is supposed to be called by God. This man implies that being ordained, authorized by his ecclesiastic hierarchy of men, is being called. Strange logic. ]

Answer. Your ordination and call is by men, contrary to the apostles and Christ, who said, ‘not by man nor of man,’ and Christ said, ‘pray to the Father that he may send laborers into the vineyard,’ and such you persecute. And you say there are two sacraments in the gospel, but the apostles tell us of no such thing, but only the pope in his mass-book.

Principle. ‘We may not learn to seek for happiness in this life; these words I command you this day shall be in your heart, to teach your children, and to talk of them in your house.’

[The man offers no happiness in this life. He can only hold out the misery of a failing life locked in the slavery of sin. But a true minister of Christ offers the Kingdom of God, and the spirit of God, with their happiness, peace, and joy:

For the kingdom of God is not in food and drink; but in righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Rom 14:17

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, Gentleness [or meekness], and self-control. Gal 5:22-23

And Peter speaks of the saints' unspeakable joy full of glory.]

Answer. These words have spoken long in your hearts, therefore have you led the world into wickedness; but the children of God find happiness in this life, being changed from the old nature in this life, they find God, and Christ, and find rest for their souls. And who is in Christ is a new creature, and such has happiness.

Principle. ‘This form of sound words is taken out of the best and soundest catechisms that we could meet withal, and our mouth is opened boldly.’

Answer. This is your form of unsound words, and if this be the best stuff you can find, out of your best catechisms, it is pitiful, dirty, dark stuff, and you would better have kept your mouth shut. If these are your catechisms, they are for the fire; the children of light who have come into the light comprehend and see the catechisms and you both, and you are to be catechized; and if you will but read over the priests' and professors' catechism, you may learn something out of it.

Continue To Next Rebuttals

This web site's purpose is to show how to become
free from sin
by benefiting from the changing power of God through the cross,
which leads to union with God in his Kingdom.