The Missing Cross to Purity

Part 18

Text in Light Blue or bold Light Blue can be "clicked" for backup in scripture or detail in writings.

Principle. ‘All nations that are of the Christian world, are for the ministers to this day, and they who are not, are the dry branches that are out from the church. Oh! How have I besought the Lord who he would convert you to remember those who have the rule over you; they who have spoken the word of God and rule well, are worthy of double honor.’

[dry branches were cast into the fire that did not produce fruit. This minister, who said above that there is no happiness in this life has no idea how to produce in his listeners the fruit of the Spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, Gentleness [or meekness], and self-control.  Gal 5:22-23.

This minister claims to be speaking the word of God. To read the Bible is not to speak the word of God; reading the Bible is reading the dead letter. To speak the word of God, is to speak what the Spirit of God tells you to speak at that moment; so the words are perfectly suited to the person(s) being addressed. And because the Holy Spirit is in control of the preaching, the Holy Spirit chains down the hearts of the listeners, so they definitely hear, and hear the words witnessed in their hearts as truth.]

Answer. You are apostatized from those elders among the apostles, and from the apostles, in a usurped authority, ministers made by the will of men, at schools and colleges, not by the will of God, as the apostles were. So your honor must be defaced; and you are the dry branches, cut off from the true church, your church and ministry both wanting the virtue and life of God; so are broken into heaps, and sects, and names among yourselves, wanting the unity and bond of peace. The nations have gotten the name of Christians, but are dead, are from the life; and your prayers are as the Pharisees, you being found in their steps, as you may read Mat 23 in its entirety. You say none can be perfect upon earth, then how and to what are they converted? Those who are converted, are converted into Christ, who is perfect, out of the first, which is not perfect.

Principle. ‘The enemies of the ministers are the forerunners of the heavy wrath of God; and the Jews were quite cut off from the church and made vagabonds upon the earth; they mocked the messengers of God, until wrath came upon the people. Ministers are either their fathers or nurses in the Lord. Their sin is killed, and grace is quickened by the ministers' means.’

[This man presumes to be a messenger of God, yet he has never heard God speak to him; and he denies that God still speaks to men. His supposed message is: there is no happiness in this life, and it is impossible to obey God's commands. This makes God cruel and unjust, proving this man is a minister of Satan, masquerading as a minister of God.]

Answer. It was the forerunner of the wrath of God upon the Jews that they had temples and tithes, and stood against the ministers of Christ; it is so to you, as it was with those who saw not the substance, that now stand against the light, and fight against it. Were not railers, envious men, and persecutors always the vagabonds? Are you not all vagabonds from the life of the apostles, as the Jews were from the law of God? Are you not all on heaps about words and scriptures, showing you are without life? Have not the wrath and plagues of God, and overflowing scourge, come upon you who are thus standing against his ministers in this his day that are sent among you cages of unclean birds, who comfort not the people, kill not their sins, quicken not their grace, keeping the people in their sins, telling them they must have the body of sin, while they are upon earth! Are not you mocking the messengers and ministers of Christ? Have not the wrath come upon you, with many of the people stricken dead for doing so? You are out of, and apostatized from the church of the apostles, that are persecuting and mocking the ministers of Christ who in scorn are called Quakers, who are sent freely among you, not for glebe-lands, tithes, Easter-reckonings, nor midsummer-dues; nor like you who put the Papists out of glebe-lands, tithes, Easter-reckonings and midsummer-dues, and get into them yourselves; that put Papists out of their mass-houses and run into them yourselves. So in this you are not like the ministers of Christ, who seek not these but them; but you are seeking these, not them, but are putting them out; this causes plagues to come upon you. And so it is because Papists and drunkards, and those who are now called ministers, are seeking the people's means, not the people, that makes the true ministers of Christ odious, who are in scorn called Quakers, who seek not theirs but them. And you are neither the true fathers nor the true nurses, but in the apostasy from them, and kicking against what pricks you, going in Saul's steps, who went with priests that had tithes, who were strayed from the life, and saw not the substance, as you raveners from the spirit of God have set up tithes, who see not the substance; you harden yourselves, not hearing the voice, from whose eyes repentance is hid, posting on for your earthly interests and means, posting to courts, sessions, assizes, and benches. And this is the work you are doing, as the courts, sessions, and assizes declare, hurrying the people thither, seeking theirs not them; your spirits are tried at courts, sessions, and assizes, to be the false spirits that went forth into the world, which Peter, Jude, and John speak of, which went forth from them, and separated themselves, which the world since went after, who have been in Cain's, Core's, and Balaam's way.

Principle. ‘Tradesmen and princes' labor preserves health, but mine consumes it.’

Answer. Here you have shown that your labor, work, and ministry are not of God, that preserves health and strength; for the work of the ministry is to bring into the saving health, and preserve it, and not consume it, as your work does; that they may honor God with their substance, and serve him with all their strength.

Principle. ‘The law gives tithes,’ say the priests, and allows ‘we may avoid working,’ and we ‘are content with food and raiment; and to give away our tithes, if the people will allow us food and raiment for us and our children, as is fit to make them serviceable, yet the Quakers call the ministers covetous.’

Answer. The Jews' priests who were made obedient to the faith, had a commandment, while they were under the priesthood, to take tithes according to the law, but the ministers now turn again from the faith to the law, and say the law of God gives it them, and say the tithes are not the people's but the Lord's. Did not the apostles cut off tithes before the law and in the law, the priesthood and law both? and have not you here shown yourselves apostatized from the apostles, so in the apostasy, who have set up a law, the first author whereof was the pope, and say the law gives it us, and that you would not leave tithes unless the people would make a bargain with you to maintain you, your wives and children? Was this the work of the apostles' ministry? What shameless words are these! What! You show yourselves so that all people may view your folly? What the apostles did give, was it upon condition, that the people should give them food and raiment for it? Did not the apostles say, ‘He who will not work let him not eat?’ But from the whole practice of the apostles you are apostatized. And are not your covetous practices discovered through all the courts, sessions, and assizes in the nation? You posting up there, and suing, and causing those to go there whom you do no work for—what is this but covetousness and unrighteousness?

Principle. ‘The Quakers say, that the priests are persecutors like the priests and Pharisees of old; but they shall be taught one day to know, that if the magistrate stops their mouths, he does no more persecute them, than a thief when he is hanged.’  You say, ‘you wish all the Lord's people were prophets.’

Answer. This is a lie found in your mouths; for you say prophesying is ceased; this you sound abroad all the world over, as far as you can. This shows that you are not able to stop their mouths, nor resist the spirits of those of whom you say, it will be no more persecution for the magistrate to stop their mouths, than to hang a thief. Thus to all magistrates that fear God, you appear with shame; and all may see what you crouch for under the mountains, for blood, Jezebel like, and make the magistrates your pack-horses, and the executioners of your malice. But the Lord God of heaven and earth, in his wisdom, is opening the eyes of many; that moderation appears in such in whose hearts the fear of the Lord is placed, that tries many of you, and turns many of you to your own weapons, to see what weapons you have, and they find you but wrestlers against flesh and blood, striking at the creatures, not at the power which captivates them, to bring them out of it into the liberty of the sons of God. The true ministers' work was to beat down blasphemers, errors, and false prophets; to stop the mouths of opposers; rebuke, exhort, teach, instruct with all authority, and cut off occasions with spiritual weapons. And this power had they in the church, and cried not to the magistrate, ‘take them away, they disturb me.’ Oh! shameless! You shame yourself before all the people in the congregation! This was not the work of the ministers of Christ to do so. This authority in the church, before mentioned, which the ministers of Christ had to stop the mouths of opposers, and silence false prophets and blasphemers, they had from God, and looked not at men to help them; but they who apostatized from the apostles, the beast, the false prophet, the mother of harlots, that deceived the nations, that were out of the power of the apostles and Christ, have had their power from men; all the false ministers upon earth are seeking to them to stop blasphemers as they imagine, being but contrary to their minds, while they themselves are the blasphemers, as weighed and judged by the scriptures and spirit of truth. And the magistrates' work, the power which he receives from God, is to punish profane open sins; and the ministers' work is to bring people from under that occasion.

[The Protestant ministers condemned the Quakers as blasphemers just like the Jews condemned Jesus as a blasphemer.]

Principle. ‘The magistrates set their guards at our doors, and let in none but whom they please. Let the kings of the earth show an uninterrupted succession, giving them right to their crowns, and I will show a more undoubted succession to the ministry. All the Christians in our parishes are our flock, we undertake to prove the truth of such churches.’

Answer. Your church is guarded with carnal weapons, and the succession of your ministry is like unto the succession of earthly kings' crowns, which are all made by the will of men. The magistrates have been only your servants, and through ignorance have quenched the spirit. Your work has been to destroy the order concerning edification, practice, and doctrine of the apostles in the true church, who said, ‘Let all speak one by one. If anything be revealed to another that sits by, let the first hold his peace. The spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets.’ From this you are apostatized, and have gotten a law to stop the practice of this in your church apostasy, whose doors, many of them, you keep with clubs and staves, lest any should be moved from the spirit of the Lord to speak among you from the Lord. And your parishes and flock which you undertake to prove to be a true church; alack for you! That people should be so impudent as to say these are the pillars and ground of truth, or that the steeple-houses are the pillars and ground of truth! A company of drunkards, swearers, covetous, proud persons, given to pleasures, you are, like those who said they were Jews, and were not, but the synagogue of Satan, a nest of unclean birds.

Principle. ‘We expect not perfect unity, till we have perfect knowledge and holiness.’

Answer. Have you cried up yourselves to be the ministers of Christ all this while, and have not perfect knowledge, perfect holiness, perfect unity? The least unity is perfect in the spirit, and the least knowledge, and the least holiness in the spirit; and you acknowledge you have not perfect unity, perfect knowledge, perfect holiness, and this has been the cause you have kept all people since the apostles in blindness, out of the unity, in what is unholy, who say you have not the perfect knowledge, for the least degree of holiness is perfect, and in the holiness is the unity, in which is the perfect knowledge, though in the least degree. And this you have confessed you have not, and we do believe you; and from your own words you and you all are proved unsanctified; for who are sanctified have perfect unity, perfect knowledge, perfect holiness.

Principle. ‘I use notes as much as any man, when I am lazy or busy.’  

Answer. This is what holds up your lazy minds, what you gather out of books, selling it again by the hour-glass; and you make that day you call the Sabbath your market day, selling both prayers and preaching, who have not the spirit of the Lord to lead you to speak as it moves, and to lead you to all truth as it did the disciples. So it is laziness indeed that has set up your notes, and you read them by the glass for money, and have learned seven years out of books and colleges, and then gather up notes out of your authors and books, and thus make a trade of them, and then tell the people you are sent, and it is the word of the Lord, when it is only from the reading of books! And yet you tell people you never heard the voice of God, if any ask you; and thus deluders are judged out of their own mouths, who have a law, if any are moved of the spirit of the Lord, while they are reading their notes, or speaking before or after, none are to speak against what they have gathered out of their books and studies; which was not the work of the true ministry, but the work of those who were out from the true spirit, and so were ministers of the letter, and old authors, and notes.

Principle. He said, ‘They are unmerciful men that say, more glorious days are appearing, and that the saints shall rule the world.’

Answer. In this you have judged yourself, and there need no more words be spoken to it. And the rest of your lies and slanders in your book, are not worth mentioning, they will fall upon your own head.

John Cole's Book, (printed 1658), his principles in it follow.

Principle. ‘It is a common thing for the young harlot to say, mind the light within.’

Answer. The light which enlightens every man who comes into the world, draws from all harlots, and they are out of it; and such may beget proselytes, and father them upon God, who are not in the truth; but the day is come that all things are made manifest, and by it do appear. And the light which every man which comes into the world is enlightened withal, is the offence to all the evil doers who are out of salvation and the covenant of God, and none see salvation but by it.

Principle. ‘The young harlot can but mend evil old Adam by her exhortations, and instructions, and doings, and threats, and she does frighten some to her obedience.’

Answer. The harlot is in what evil old Adam is in, in the transgression; and so they who are whored from the spirit of God cannot mend and instruct the transgressor, they themselves being in the transgression. They may tell them of the saints' words, and speak them, as the devil does, who is out of the truth; but you, John Cole, are fallen into the earth, and there are quarrelling.

And as for the rest of the stuff in your book it is not worth mentioning; but when you feels the root and tree burn and fall into a fire about you, and you in it, then remember you have not what savors, as your confused, childish works do make appear, which in print you have published to the world.

Alexander Ross's Book, which he calls, ‘A view of all Religions.’ His Lies and Principles.

Principle. ‘God is not in the quaking of the body.’

Answer. Was it not God that made the body of David to quake? And Daniel, and Habakkuk, and Job? And the mountains quaked at the giving forth of his law. And does not God say, ‘he does not shake the earth, but heaven also?’ Now do not you manifest yourself to be one of those who cast those out that tremble at the word, and tell them that God is not among them?

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12

As for Alexander Ross's lies and slanders, in saying the Quakers said, Christ had failings, and distrusted God; which thousands of thousands that can witness to your face you are a liar, it is a sufficient proof to those who your book is made up of such stuff, of lies, which is your view from the creation. The rest of your book is much the same. The false prophets,’ studying a divination of their own brain in order to get money, we deny; but we own those who divide the word. All who pray, and preach, and sing for money, and make a trade of the scripture to get money, we disown; but those who pray and sing by the spirit we own. All your readings for money we deny; but who read freely we own. All your ceremonies we deny; we, who have come to the substance Christ Jesus, who was before the world was made.

Principle. ‘The leaves of a tree are not the fruits of it, and yet without the leaves, the fruit would not prosper.’

Answer. Are you a fit man to give a view from the creation of the world, who errs thus in natural knowledge? For, pluck off the leaves of the vines, and see if the grapes will not prosper? Are you a fit man to give a view of religion, and blasphemy, and error; when, from the creation, you are not able to give a true view of the natural events?

Principle. You say, ‘It is horrid blasphemy to say the scripture is not the word of God, and to say the soul is a part of God.’

Answer. The scriptures are the words of God in Exodus, and in the book of the Revelation, but Christ is the word in whom they end; and it is not horrid blasphemy to say the soul is a part of God, for it came out of him, and what came out of him, is of him, and rejoices in him.

Why will you lie, in saying the Quakers deny the word? We say, it sanctifies them.

His lies. ‘Christ is not ascended into heaven; that there is no heaven, nor hell, nor resurrection of the body; that we have no sacrament nor trinity.’

As for the words sacrament and trinity, they are from the pope, the mass-book, and the bishops' common prayer; but unity and the Lord's supper are owned; and heaven, hell, Christ, and ascension, and resurrection are owned by the Quakers, as the scriptures declare them. And your old mass-house, with the cross atop of it, which you call your church, the beast has set up since the days of the apostles, with his lying sign at the end of it, the pope's cross. Christ came to destroy self, and reconcile into one; and Christ forbids men to be called of men master, and said the Pharisees did so. And magistrates are owned in their place; but all those ministers that teach for filthy lucre, that serve an apprenticeship at schools and colleges like tradesmen, such we deny, such are not fit to study nor expound scripture; for they bring people into heats and into blood, as their fruits in Christendom declare. But the prophets, Christ, and his apostles and ministers, their practices are owned, and elders, and their honor; but the honor of the false prophets and apostles is defaced by the true. The scripture does not speak a word of sprinkling of infants, but the baptism of the spirit is owned. All your prayers in your mass-house, Pharisee like, and your songs in the temple shall be turned into howling; but what is according to the spirit of God is owned; and private and public instructions are owned that are in the spirit of God; and David's psalms in their place are owned, and the saints' singing with understanding also we own.

[The physical cross, hung on the church wall, is the lying sign of the beast, the pope’s cross. The cross was held in great disdain by the early Quakers because it replaced the necessary experience of the inward cross of self-denial, and focused everyone on the single cross that Jesus bore. Rather that undergo the daily self-denial of the cross, Christendom instead wore crosses and bowed to crosses; bowing being a part of the Roman Catholic practices, and the first generation successor Protestants. Bowing to the cross is worshiping an idol; but even wearing a cross is seen as a boastful display of being religious, as well as to show the lack of understanding and disregard of what the cross of Christ truly is.

Jesus told us six times we must pick up our cross, daily, deny ourselves, and follow him. Note! He told us this before he went to the cross himself, so his going to the cross and dying a horrible death was to show us the obedience to God that is required from all of us. To wear a cross, is to trivialize the necessity of each would-be Christian dying to self on their personal inward cross of self-denial.]

Principle. They say, ‘The Church is in God, therefore God is not in the church, they may say.’

Answer. This is like your reason, and your measure and weight. The church is in God, and God is in the church; and where two or three are gathered together, he is in the midst of them.

Principle. He says, ‘We speak against tithes and clerks' wages for saying, Amen, and this you say is an absurd opinion.’

Answer. Tithes before the law, and in the law, were owned, that they should give the tenth of the spoil [from war] and the tenth of the earth, for the services that were required, for widows, strangers, fatherless, and Levi who had no portion in the earth, that there might not be a beggar among them; these tenths preserved them from beggars, and this was the law. And Melchizedek, who was without father or mother, took the tenth of the spoil, before the law; and Christ the end of the law, puts an end to all spoils, and redeems men out of the ninth and tenth parts of the earth to God; and here the day of salvation is known to reign upon the earth. For when man transgressed, being driven from God into the earth, then the law came, that was over all transgression, and led out of it; by that law were they to offer up the tenth; and Melchizedek before the law had the tenth of the spoils, but Christ who ends the wars, ended the spoils, and the tenths, who is the heir of all things, the covenant of God; who reconciles all things in one, things in heaven, and things in earth. This the apostles preached, who were in the power of God, who brought men out of the ninths of the earth and tenths too, and brought men out of the occasion of the wars into what ended them, which was the power of God. But they who went forth from the apostles into the earth, that had the form of godliness and denied the power thereof, who led the world after them, set up ninths and tenths, unlike the ministers of the gospel, who brought them out of the ninths and tenths into unity with the power of God, and the son, and to reign upon the earth. Those who take tithes now, are unlike those who took tithes under the law, or before the law, that Abraham gave the tenths of the spoil to, who met them with bread and water, but these now have no storehouse for widows, strangers, and fatherless, so that there was not be a beggar among them. So they who are called christian priests, who cannot get their tenths without prisons, courts, and writs, and treble damages, and casting into prison until death for them, are worse than the Jews. These are called christian practices in our days by them who are apostatized from the true apostles and church, and from the power of God they were in! But the maintenance that Christ speaks of to his ministers is owned, but all that make a trade of the words of the prophets, Christ, and the apostles, who laid down their lives for speaking them forth, we deny. The apostles did not give a clerk wages to say amen, but that came up since the apostles' days, and is judged by the spirit of truth, and whoever will make Alexander Ross's lies in his book called, ‘A view of Religion,’ their refuge, are in a sad condition, both which, he and his lies, are condemned to the fire and lake by the power of God. Glory in the highest! rejoice over them you saints.

[Tithes were an ordinance of the Levitical priesthood; tithes were to be collected by the priests of Levi and were for support of orphans, widows, the poor, and the Levitical priests. Jesus abolished and cancelled the Levitical priesthood when he gave his life as an everlasting sacrifice and became the new priesthood himself. With the abolishing of the Levitical priesthood, he annulled the ordinance of tithes permanently. There is no longer a Levitical priesthood to give the tithes to; Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. So anyone who asks for tithes is a false prophet, and anyone who contributes tithes suffers the condemnation of supporting a false prophet and false religion. See Why Tithing is Wrong  and The Beginning of Tithes in the Law, and the Ending of Tithes in the Gospel for more on this subject.]

Richard Mayo, Priest of Kingston, his Doctrine and Principles, as follow.

Principle. ‘That the light within is the light of nature, which teaches to do all things that the law commands, and to deny all things that the law forbids.’

Answer. What teaches to do all things that the law commands, and deny what the law forbids, is above nature; that is what keeps nature in its course, that it shall not be of the fire [of anger]; but we see your nature is gone out of its course; and is all on fire among you priests and professors.

Principle. ‘That God set up a dim light in every man.’

Answer. The light that God set up in every man is not dim, but men grow dim when they transgress the light, which God has set in them, to give them the knowledge and feeling of himself.

Principle. ‘He said the devil was the power of God, and that Christ was made manifest to destroy the power of God, and to destroy him that was the power of God.’

Answer. The devil that went out of the truth, went out of the power of God, and Christ was manifest [revealed in man] to destroy the works [sin] of the devil [in a man]; Christ was certainly not to destroy the power of God, though Christ came to put an end to all figures, types and shadows, priests, first covenant, and temple. Christ, who is the power of God, did not come to destroy the power of God, the power of God is not divided against itself; and the devil, who went out of the truth, the power of God, went against God. So the devil is not the power of God, who went out of the truth, who tempted others out of the truth to transgress and to sin, by which came death, by which the devil, who went out of the truth, has the power of death. So it is the power of death, which Christ the power of God destroys, and him [the devil] that has the power of it.

Principle. Mayo said, ‘To say the gospel is the power of God, is only a metaphorical speech.’

Answer. The apostle does not say so; for the Apostle said, ‘The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, to everyone that believes,’ in plain words. Rom 1:16.

[What power is the gospel? If you have the true hope, you will realize the true gospel, which power cleanses you, purifies you, perfects you, unites with you, and translates you to the kingdom of God. Without the true hope, without the cross, without the power of the name of Jesus, the power of God is not released to deliver you from sin.]

Principle. He said, ‘that by that lantern or light, spoken of in the Psalms, which was a light unto David's path, was not meant Christ the word.’

Answer. Why then does the apostle often bring David's words to prove that David did speak of Christ; and spoke of the sure mercies of David, of the everlasting covenant of light [to David and his sons forever] , and that in his light he should see more light, and called the Lord his light? David saw his flesh that should see no corruption, and his resurrection; and many other scriptures might be brought to prove this.

Principle. He said, ‘The scriptures were the seed which the sower went forth to sow,’ Mat. 13.

[Who is the sower, who is sowing the seed, who is speaking the word of God? It is obviously the Holy Spirit, whom is promised by Jesus to guide us into all truth, teach us all things, and who reproves the whole world. Now, since the Holy Spirit is the sower, do you think he is reading scriptures to people? Or if you think the Holy Spirit teaches you when you read the Bible, ask yourself this: 1) How can you learn all things and all truth by reading the Bible? All things and all truth are not in the Bible. 2) If you can learn from the Holy Spirit by reading the Bible, why, with millions of people reading the Bible every day, are there 41,000 different sects in Christendom today, each with a different opinion as to what the Bible means, when the stated purpose of the Holy Spirit is unity?

Clearly the sower is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is speaking words to his listeners in their hearts, in complete recognition of their individual characteristics and requirements, in language that is tailored to each listener, in visions of their past experiences to illustrate his teachings, and in regard to countless more subjects and mysteries than are included in scriptures.]  

Answer. The seed is what the scripture speaks of, which Christ said is the word; and many who have the scripture, do not know the seed, nor the thing it speaks of, nor the seed that is sown, which is the word, as instance the Jews and you Christians, who put scripture for it; for if the scripture be the seed, it is sown already, it is printed, and so why do you need to go out to sow it?

Principle. He said, ‘that Paul in the of the Eph 5:18 exhorts the Ephesians to follow a light which was not the light of the gospel,’ and he said, ‘he could not prove in plain scripture in so many words, that any of the ministers of Christ exhort the saints to follow a light which was the light of the gospel.’

Answer. In this we see his confusion, who confuses himself; and that in the Ephesians which he said was not the light of the gospel, let all people read, where Paul tells them not to be drunk with wine, but be filled with the spirit; and this is the light of the gospel, which ‘does enlighten every man that comes into the world,’ which darkness cannot comprehend, where is said: For the god of this world [Satan] has blinded the minds of the infidels, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ should not shine in them, 2 Cor 4:4; as the minds of all the priests in the world do appear to be blinded by the god of the world, that the light of the glorious gospel, which is the image of God, which shines in the hearts of believers, they do not behold, and though the light shines in darkness, their darkness comprehends it not. Therefore they rage like the Jews, and are professing the letter as the Jews did, standing against the light, with which light they are comprehended, which was before ages were.

Principle. He said, ‘that Paul's persecuting the saints was a righteous thing in the sight of men,’ and he said, that ‘he denied that any doer of the law is justified, so as to be saved.’

Answer. Paul's persecuting the saints was not a righteous thing among righteous men, that were in the righteousness of God; for Christ the righteousness of God said, ‘Paul, why do you persecute me?’ Now Paul's persecuting was justified by them who were in the self-righteousness, out of the righteousness of Christ; and such as are in that righteousness may justify you and your persecution. And the doers of the law are justified, and they who are justified are saved, and Christ the end of the law, who redeems from under it, they come to know to be salvation itself. So I through the law, am dead to it, and know it a school master, and the righteousness of the law fulfilled in me.

Principle. ‘That a man may be a righteous man, and not a godly man.’

Answer. A righteous man in the righteousness of Christ, is a godly man, who has the righteousness of the law fulfilled in him, but a righteous man in self-righteousness is ungodly.

Principle. ‘That a man may be justified by God, and yet condemned by his own conscience; and justified by his own conscience and condemned by God.’

Answer. A man that is justified by God is not condemned by his own conscience, for the mystery of faith is held in a pure conscience, in which men are justified in the sight of God. And a man that is condemned in his own conscience, is not justified in the sight of God; what condemns is the light, and that is the cause of condemnation, the hating of it, and not believing of it, and that is the cause the conscience comes to be seared, whereby comes condemnation; and that in the Romans, proves no such thing as you lay down.

Principle. ‘That every believer does not have the witness in him.’

Answer. That is contrary to scripture and the ministers of Christ's doctrine, who say, he who believes has the witness in himself, (mark, he) and after he believes, he comes to be sealed with the spirit of promise, and can set to his seal that God is true, and comes to believe the record of his son, which is the spirit that records all things.

Principle. ‘That the gospel is not the power of God.’

[This a denial of the exact words in Romans 1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. For it is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes.

The man denies any scripture that doesn't fit his imagined doctrines to justify sinful men to be saints. Obviously he denies it because he has never experienced the power of God, and therefore he doesn't have a clue to what is the gospel; yet he claims to preach the gospel and be a minister of the gospel.]

Answer. The gospel is the power of God; in this you are contrary to the ministers of the gospel, who said, the gospel was the ‘power of God to salvation to everyone that believes,’ and in this you have proved yourself to be an unbeliever.

Principle. ‘He would make Christ speak blasphemy; leaving out half his words.’

Answer. That is false: you could not make Christ, the power of God, the light, the life, the truth, speak blasphemy in leaving out many of his words; for all blasphemy is out of the truth, and the power of God, and in the power and life of God there is no blasphemy.

Principle. ‘That a man may persecute Christ in the saints, and be a righteous man, and that the scriptures save instrumentally.’

[This man has no clue as to why Jesus came to the earth, taught, and died.

If a man can persecute Christ in the saints, then the Jews who killed Stephen might have been righteous.

Then the Romans who killed Peter and Paul might have been righteous.

Then the Jews who beheaded James might be righteous.

Then Paul, who considered himself as the worst sinner for persecuting Christians as Saul, might be wrong and really have been righteous, before Christ blinded him on the road to Damascus.

If someone can be righteous killing Christ in the saints, then the Jews who beat, spit on, and demanded Christ be crucified may have been righteous too.

No man is righteous who persecutes any other man, now matter what spirit the other man has. Christ told us to love our enemies, not persecute them.

Are you beginning to see how ministers educated by man are without any value, and in fact are only unwitting tools of Satan to delude and captivate those people who want to please God?]

Answer. A man cannot persecute the saints, and be in the righteousness of God, or the righteousness of the law. Those who persecute Christ, are in their own self-righteousness. The scripture saves not instrumentally, but as men are in the faith; and men do not know salvation, unless they are in the life that gave the scriptures forth, and in Christ, the savior they speak of; and there is the instrumental saving that the scripture speaks to. Christ asked those who had the scriptures how they could escape the damnation of hell, who were out of the life: You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Mat 23:33

Principle. ‘Those who did not swear broke the law of God and man.’

[Here is the classic case of twisting the scriptures to exactly the opposite of what they say. The only way a so-called minister gets away with such abominations is because their hearers are too lazy to read the scriptures themselves, and too willing to accept the authority of someone who has been "educated" is the schools of men. Cease trusting in any man, whose breath is in his nostrils, for of what value is he? ‘but look unto me all you ends of the earth, and be saved, said, the Lord.’ Isa 2:22, 45:22.]

Answer. They who swear are not come to Christ the end of the law, and they are out of Christ's doctrine and the apostles,’ who said ‘swear not at all, not by heaven, nor by earth, nor any other oath; but let your communication be yes, yes, no, no, lest you fall into condemnation, for whatsoever is more than this comes of evil.’ So all swearers are in the evil, they are false brethren, they fall into condemnation, they are out of the doctrine of Christ, and break his command, and are none of his ministers.

Principle. ‘He did believe in a Christ that died at Jerusalem, but not in a Christ within.’

Answer. He who believes not in a Christ within, does not believe in a Christ at Jerusalem, and he who does not believe in a Christ within, and preach Christ within, is a reprobate, and out of the apostles' doctrine, Col 1:27, 2 Cor 13:5, and he is not a true believer of Christ without, who believes not in a Christ within, but is in the devil's belief, and believes as the devil does.

Principle. ‘That if there is one grace within, it is created, and he does not believe in any created thing.’

Answer. The grace that is within, that establishes the heart, is brought by the revelation of Jesus; the loins of the mind being girded up, it knows the grace by which it is saved, which brings salvation, which is sufficient. This comes from the Creator; which grace teaches us, said the saints, to deny ungodly lusts, and to live soberly.

Principle. ‘That light which Christ has enlightened every man with, is carnal and darkness.’

[God is light, 1 John 1:5, and certainly not carnal and darkness. Why is it so hard to understand that God and Christ are infinite, without measure, and can be throughout the entire creation, including dwelling in the crown of their creation, man? Do not put limits on the scope, size, power, magnitude, and range of the Holy One of Israel.]

Answer. The light which Christ has enlightened every man that is come into the world with, was before carnal or darkness was; and believing in it, it leads every man from darkness and his carnal estate, into unity with God; for no man sees his carnal estate and darkness, but by the light which makes it manifest. And the light which lights every man that comes into the world, is what all professors that were without life, in all ages stumbled at.

Principle. He knew ‘no scripture that the world was in the heart of man,’ and that it was ‘nonsense.’

Answer. You are ignorant of Solomon's words, who said Ecc 3:11. ‘He has set the world in their hearts, that they cannot find the beginning or ending of the work of God.’ And here you have shown yourself of the bottomless pit, without the beginning or ending of the work of God; and he is in the nonsense who is not in the beginning or ending of the work of God.

Principle. ‘That men cannot be saved that have no other light.’

Answer. The light which has enlightened every man that is come into the world, is the savior, and no man is condemned, but for not believing in that light, and no man is saved except those who believes in that light.

Principle. ‘That there is no perfection attainable in this life.’

[Jesus commanded us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. That is a perfect as is possible, a definitive qualification of perfect. To deny this command as possible, one must either: 1) deny the truth of the scriptures, or 2) conclude that Jesus is a liar, or 3) conclude that Jesus is unjust by commanding us to do something that is impossible. Of course none of the above three are true: perfection is possible and the inward cross of self-denial is the way to perfection. And Jesus tells us the one thing that we must do:

Jesus said: "There is only one thing needed. Mary has chosen that good part,
which shall not be taken away from her" - to sit at the feet of Jesus and hear his word. Luke 10:39-42

To hear his word it to listen to the word of God in your heart. Rom 10:8,17

Which is to sit at the feet of Jesus and listen to his word, the words he speaks to us from within our hearts that are spirit and life. We too must sit silently and wait on the Lord, to listen, to hear, and obey.

It is a cross to a man's will to sit silently, struggling to keep his mind from wandering; it is a cross to a man's will to obey what he is commanded and taught by the Holy Spirit; this is the cross of which you must deny yourself and pick up every day to follow Jesus. To follow is to obey. You cannot be his disciple unless you pick up your cross daily (to listen in silence) and follow his orders. To follow his commands is to deny your will, and instead do His will: "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." Salvation is only received by those who follow the lamb wherever he goes - who obey completely the voice of the Lord, in whatever he commands. Do not be discouraged if you don't hear for some time. Even your waiting is to your credit: Let your mercy, O LORD, be upon us, in proportion to our waiting and hoping on you. Psalms 33:22. For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by ear, nor has the eye seen a God beside you, who acts for the one who waits for him. Isa 64:4.]

Answer. There only no-perfection-possible is for those in wickedness, in the life of Adam in the transgression, and there men live in sin, and have it in their body, and carry a body of sin and transgression, which came by the devil; but Christ, the second Adam, destroys the devil and his works, and the power of death, who saves men from sin, and blots out the sin and transgression, and redeems from the earth; and they who are in Christ, the second Adam, are in perfection, and in what is perfect, and makes free from sin, and the body of it, and death, and him that has the power of death, and they come to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect. And the work of the ministers of Christ, was to the perfecting of the saints, and you who do deny perfection, have denied the ministers of Christ's work, who preach Christ within, and preached everyone perfect in him.

Principle. ‘That the scripture is the word of God.’

Answer. The scriptures are the words of God, as you may read, Exodus, Matthew, and Revelation and Christ is the word of God, in whom the words end, before the words were spoken forth; and man without the Spirit cannot interpret scriptures.

Principle. ‘That the ministers of this nation, are the ministers of Christ and the gospel, and that it is a sin to despise them.’

Answer. The ministers of this nation, or anywhere else, are not the ministers of Christ and the gospel if they deny the light that enlightens every man that comes into the world, and hold up swearing. Neither are they the men who are competent to interpret scriptures; for they cannot see without the light which enlightens every man that comes into the world, and which was before the world was made, which is the end of the prophets, by which the prophets' words are seen and the end of them. And so such before mentioned are to be turned from, that turn from the light; and it is no sin to obey the apostles' commands, 2. Tim 3:5 to deny them who have come up since the apostles' decease, having the form but denying the power.

Principle. ‘That they may lawfully take tithes of the people.’

Answer. And you who take tithes of the people, are of the pope's tribe, got up since the days of the apostles, who said the priesthood was changed that took the tithes, the law was changed by which the priesthood was made, and the commandment disannulled that gave tithes. And Christ was the sum, the end of all similarities, who was before Abraham was who paid tithes, Heb 7. The pope is your author in taking tithes, in the apostasy since the days of the apostles, and Christ is the end of the law.

[Read Hebrews 7 to see that the Levitical priesthood was eliminated by Christ himself, who became our priest forever. When he replaced the priesthood, he cancelled all ordinances of that priesthood, of which tithing was one. For more on this subject, see Why Tithing is Wrong  and The Beginning of Tithes in the Law, and the Ending of Tithes in the Gospel]

Principle. Richard Mayo said, ‘that it is not unlawful to say you to a single person.’

Answer. In this you show you never read the Accidence [grammar books of England at the time] or the Bible; and it is unlawful to speak unrighteously, and to say there are many when there is but one, to call one many, or say you to one.

[Showing partiality to certain people is a sin, James 2:9. The Lord commanded the early Quakers to refuse to honor important singular people with the word you, as they demanded for a sign of respect; yet unimportant people were never addressed with you, only thee. Today, all classes and professions are addressed as you, obsolescing the command of the Lord that applied to the 17th Century.

Principle. ‘That ministers may exhort men to walk by the light of reason, as well as the light of the gospel.’

[Reason is using the carnal mind, which is enmity to God. Walking according to the light of reason, is walking according to the flesh and the imagination of your own heart.
To walk after the imagination of your own heart is worse than worshipping idols. Jer 16:11-12

Yet they say to everyone who walks after the imagination of his own heart, "No evil shall come upon you." Jer 23:17

The light of reason is an oxymoron, there is no scripture reference to such; you don't walk by light that analyzes and then chooses a course of action. Light shows the course of action, prompts the course of action; light does not present all the possible alternatives for each action and then reason with you why one alternative is better than another — that is what the carnal mind does, the opposite of walking in the light by faith. ]

Answer. No man walks by the light of reason but he who is in the faith, who is in the light of the gospel, and all other reason is as the beasts of the field; what makes men reasonable, is faith, and all that are in the faith, are in the light of the gospel, and this is one, which all unreasonableness is out of, and in the transgression; for none are in the reasonableness, but such as come out of transgression; and such as are reasonable walk by the light of the gospel.

Principle. ‘That the gospel itself is only a dead letter.’

[No, not the gospel, but the books called gospels are dead letter. The gospel is a mystery, the books are not. The gospel is the power of God, the books are not. The gospel is preached by the everlasting word of the Lord, which is Jesus, not a book. This man thinks that the gospels [note, plural gospels] are the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These books are not the gospel of Christ. The books speak of the gospel, but are not the gospel. But at least the man knows that scripture is the dead letter, for the letter kills, only the spirit gives life, 2 Cor 3:6; only the words that are spoken to you by the Spirit impart life, John 6:63]

Answer. The gospel itself is the power of God, what the letter [scripture] speaks of, and many may have the letter, the form, and deny the power of God, and so do not have the gospel.

Principle. ‘That the gospel is no more the power of God, than the rose cake that lay in his window.’

[He clearly denies scripture: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. For it is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek, Rom 1:16; which continues to show he doesn't know what the gospel is, though he claims to be a preacher of the gospel, which he is neither.]

Answer. The gospel is the power of God preached in every creature, more than a rose cake; the gospel gives every creature its living and being for it relieves the oppressed, and turns against the oppressor; so it is called glad tidings, for the gospel has been preached unto every creature in heaven. The gospel is the power of God which turns against that which bondages, namely, the corruptions, and so gives liberty and freedom to the captives; and this, which is the power of God, is glad tidings, and is more than any creature, and all the creatures; what gives liberty and freedom to all, is glad tidings.

Principle. Richard Mayo further said, ‘it was no matter to him if the devil was the originator of tithes, if the law of the land would give it him, he would have it.’

Answer. We do believe you; his [the devil’s] servant you are, your seared conscience and hardness of heart discover it. But the ministers of Christ and the gospel never preached nor held forth such doctrine, nor would ever act anything from what the devil was the originator of, and you do say you would take tithes though he was the originator of them, if the law of the land would give them to you! He has been the original of them, and the pope's laws first set them up, whereby the saints' goods are seized, and sold, and made havoc of; and you are not contented with the seizure and sale of their goods, but you bring their bodies into your priests' den; and thus you eat up people, and swallow up the needy for a thing of nothing, as they did of old, as your forefathers did transgress for a pair of shoes.

Principle. He said, ‘Cain was no vagabond after he had built a city,’ and he said, ‘there was no scripture that the apostles had no certain dwelling place;’ and that ‘the steeple-house was the church.’

[More shameful denial of scripture:

And the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"
And he said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries to me from the ground.
And now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand;
When you till the ground, it shall not yield its strength to you from this time forward; you shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth. Gen 4:9-12

Answer. This is contrary to scripture; for Cain, though he built a city, was a vagabond, and disobeyed the command of God, and lost his habitation in God; so all great men upon the earth, though they build a city, and are lords, and earls, and dukes, and princes, and kings, if they disobey the command of God, and do not dwell in him, they have no habitation, but are all vagabonds. And though Paul had no certain dwelling place, 1 Cor 4:11, yet he had a habitation in God, and was no vagabond. And the steeple-house is no church, but the old mass-house, set up since the days of the apostles, since they lost the true church, Thes 1.

Priest Bushel's principles. These words were given forth by Seth Bushel, priest of Whitley, as follows, the 25th day of the first month, 1658.

Principle. ‘Men are not converted by the light within them.’

Answer. If Christ is not in you, the body is dead, and he is light within. And ‘the light that shines in the heart gives the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus.’ And none are converted but they who are in him, and they are converted by him within; and the light that shines in the heart, gives the knowledge of conversion and unconversion; and there are none come to conversion but by it, the light, which is Christ.

Principle. He said, ‘that he denies that the light that lights every man is Christ,’ as John speaks, John 1:9.

Answer. In this you have denied John's doctrine, who said, ‘He is the true light which enlightens every man that comes into the world.’ ‘And as many as received him, he gave them power to become the sons of God.’ And thus you are ignorant of the scriptures, much more of the power of God.

Principle. He said, ‘The light which every man is enlightened withal, never converted any man to God.’

Answer. Here you go about in your doctrine to prove that Christ never brought any to God, who is the light ‘that lights every man that comes into the world,’ who is the way to the Father, who saves men from sin, and destroys death, and he who has the power of it, and brings men into what the devil is out of. You and your doctrines are comprehended and condemned by the light; and no man is converted to God but by the light ‘which has enlightened every man that comes into the world.’

Principle. He said, ‘That the light which lights every man is the broad way.’

Answer. Here people may all see this priest to be a minister of darkness and wickedness; for the light which enlightens every man is Christ Jesus, who is the way to the Father, and leads people out of the broad way, which is come up by Adam, sin, the devil, and transgression; and all are in the broad way that deny the light.

Hereford, the 8th day of the first month, 1658, these words were spoken in a meeting by Edward Price and Philip Langford, which are their principles.

Principle. Philip Langford said, ‘Paul was not freed from the act of sin while in this life.’

Answer. Paul thanks God he was made free from the body of sin, and saw there was no condemnation; and thus he wrestles and fights against Paul, who said he was made free from sin, and could live no longer therein; and the body of sin was put off; and his citizenship was in heaven; [and he had been crucified with Christ, Paul no longer lived, but Christ in him lived instead.]

Principle. ‘We do affirm, that they who are in this faith that turns from sin, are subject to sin, the act of sin, While in this mortal body.’

[How can you be turned from sin, but still be subject to sin, other than temporarily while you complete your turn?]

Answer. This is confusion and contradiction, and not sound doctrine; for faith that purifies the heart from sin, gives victory over it, in which men please God, and have access to him, by faith they are justified while on earth, and by faith the just live; and the life the saints come to live, which gives them victory over the world, is by the faith of the son of God.’

Principle. Priest Price said, ‘Faith in Christ Jesus does not purify from the indwellings of sin while in this body.’

Answer. Jesus told Paul: I am sending you to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins, release from sin's slavery, and inheritance among those who are sanctified and purified by faith in Me. Acts 26:17-18

Answer. In this the scripture has corrected you; for it said, ‘faith purifies the heart;’ what purifies, takes away sin, which, being unclean in itself, makes unclean.

Principle. He said, ‘The guilt of sin may be taken away, but the act of sin may remain.’

[He who takes the guilt of sin away is the devil, not the Lord. The more a man sins, the more the devil sears a man's conscience so that he no longer has guilt from sin. If you feel no guilt from sinning, woe to you, for your conscience has been killed.

This man wants to believe that Christ came to set us free from the guilt of sin rather than deliver us, (the captives), from sin. If Christ came to set us free from the guilt of sin, he came to make sin easier, he came to promote sin, which is completely the opposite of what God and Christ stand against.

Guilt-free sin is the intoxicating cup that the Whore of Babylon offers and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication," Rev 17:2; the wine of her fornication is the false promise of living in lusts and pride with no consequence of the fury of God — sin with no penalty, the doctrine of the devil.]

Answer. You are like one of the old doctors the scriptures speak of. Do you commit sin and not feel the guilt of it? You bring the whole world upon your head; the principle of God in them all will witness against you. Ask all the thieves who are condemned to the gallows, and the drunkards, and such as commit sin, such as profess scriptures, which are not in the life of it, whether or not they do not have a guilt upon them for committing sin. But this is one of the blind priests' principles; no one but mad men will believe them; wicked liars against that of God in their own conscience! Thus they preach up the devil's doctrine of lies.

[Fox says that no one but mad men will believe them; that guilt is taken away but sin remain. How times have changed from the 17th Century to the 21st Century, for all of fundamental Christendom believes exactly that today. In fact today's members of Christendom are so accustomed to sinning in the sight of God that they often have less self-control than the heathen who knows sin is wrong from his conscience, but does not think Jesus is his excuse to all manner of immorality and impurity.]

Principle. Edward Price said, ‘that all men should be judged by the scriptures, and that the scriptures are the power of God.’

[Christ, who is the power of God, had all power in heaven and earth given to him. Can anyone imagine all power in heaven and earth to be in a book? ]

A. The scripture said, ‘Christ is the power of God;’ and the apostle said, ‘The letter kills;’ and ‘all judgment is committed to the son,’ say the ministers of Christ. And the scriptures are the words of God, and Christ is the word, and judge, in whom the words end, whom you have thrown out, and set scripture in his room; and as for the rest of his words, they are not worth mentioning.

Enoch Howet's principles.

Principle. ‘The doctrine of perfection in the creature is a lie.’

[Then scores of scriptures are lies; click to see them.]

Answer. The doctrine of perfection in the creature is Christ, who destroys the devil and his works, and binds the strong man, and spoils his goods, and takes the possession of it to himself, and the creature is a perfect creature, out of transgression. ‘He who is born of God does not commit sin,’ seeing the seed of God remains in him; and that is the doctrine of perfection in the creature. And Christ makes all things new; and you, who cannot witness anything made new, are in the old things, crying up imperfection; and what is perfect is what brings men to confess their sins, and that is found in the creature.

Thomas Hodges, rector in Oxfordshire, bachelor in divinity, said,

Principle. ‘That the Holy Ghost speaks in the scriptures.’

Answer. Here all may see his ignorance, whether this man is fit to be a rector who is thus corrected with the scriptures, which say, that the Holy Ghost moved in those who gave forth scriptures; but said, ‘the letter was dead, and did not give life.’ And thus he directs into darkness, in telling the people the Holy Ghost is in scripture, when the scripture never gave forth that speech, but said it was in those who gave it forth; for many may have the scriptures, and lack the Holy Ghost, as the Pharisees.

Principle. To the law and to the testimony; and you shall not make to your self any graven image that is in heaven or in earth.’

Answer. I say, to the law and to the testimony, before Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, Epistles, and the Revelations were written: ‘The law is light,’ ‘the testimony of Jesus the spirit of prophecy,’ as in former days, Isaiah the 8. And you have told the people that it is the Old and New Testament; but the New had not yet been written in his days in the days of Isaiah. Why do you make likenesses of things in heaven and in earth, and hang them up in your houses, and on signs, yet you say we should not make them, for it is a breach of God's command; of whom have you learned to make all these images of things in heaven, and things in the earth, since the days of the apostles, but of those who went forth from the apostles, the pope's tribe; of whom you are.

Richard Heath, Priest in Shrewsbury. His Principles as follows.

Principle. ‘That drawing people to a light within them, you draw them from God to themselves, from the instruction of the spirit.’

Answer. Here you are a minister unlike to the apostle, who brought people to a light within them, 2 Cor 4:6 and told them, ‘that the light that shined in their hearts would give them the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.’ And so none come to the knowledge of the spirit, but such as come to the light within, (and from themselves), though they have the scriptures as the Jews had.

Principle. ‘If we ministers should send people from all other lights to the light within them, we should then turn them from light to darkness, from God to the power of Satan.’

[This man deliberately distorts scripture to make his argument. Here is the scripture he distorts: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, release from sin's slavery, and an inheritance among those who are purified by faith in me. Acts 26:18.]

Answer. None come to God, but they who come to the light within, from the power of Satan and darkness; and God will dwell in them, and walk in them, and make his abode in them, who is light, and the end of all other lights, before they were. You, who turn people from the light, turn people into darkness, the power of Satan, and there keep people under his dominion, from the light Christ Jesus that has enlightened every man that comes into the world, with which they might see their savior.

Daniel Gaudry, Priest of great Billing in Northamptonshire. His Principles follow.

Principle. ‘That the saints are partly sinful, and failing in their best works, and subject to continual lusting one against another.’

[On those saints who are partly sinful, failing in their best works, and continually lusting against another: If this is the fate of real saints, why even aspire to become a saint, who is no better than a devil in their behavior? The problem is make-believe saints, who have totally misinterpreted the scripture to think they qualify as saints because they believe in Jesus, ignoring all the  exclusions, the requirements, and the qualifying conditions of belief clearly stated in scripture.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. 1 John 3:8.]

Answer. The life of the saints is Christ, not sinful at all; and they are ceased from their own works, and are true believers. And the works of faith are not sinful, nor the works of the spirit, by which the saints are led; and they come into Christ in whom they have peace, and do not lust one against another, but live in the spirit in which there is unity, in which is the bond of peace; and the lusting one against another is in the transgression against the spirit of God. So they who are in Christ, are in peace; and they who are in the world are in trouble, in wars; but they who are in Christ, are in him who was before wars were, inward or outward, of whom you are ignorant.

Principle. ‘The blood of Christ cleanses from all sin, from the guilt of it, instantly and perfectly; from the stain and power of it, gradually.’

Answer. Where sin is, there the guilt of it is felt at that instant; but whoever feels the sin, shall feel the guilt of it. The blood of the seed cleanses, it makes free from what the law takes hold of; and the blood of the seed cleanses from sin, from the power and stain of it, and then the guilt of it is gone; the seed destroys death and him that has the power of it, which is the devil; and where this is known the fullness is known which is above degrees, what degrees end in.

Principle. ‘It is the tang of popery that a man may fall from saving grace.’

Answer. ‘The grace of God that has appeared to all men, which brings salvation,’ is saving, and such you and many papists turns into lasciviousness and wantonness. What brings salvation is saving. So you are turned to be murderers of one another about scriptures, which was not the practice of them who lived soberly, righteously, and godly, who denied the worldly lusts and ungodliness, but their hearts were established in grace which was their teacher; but you and papists that live wildly, and ungodly, and unrighteously, in the lusts of the world, that are fallen from the saving grace, your fruits, your actions daily declare and show it; and so you are talkers of grace, which is turned into wantonness both among you and the papists; your unseasoned hearts and words make it appear.

Principle. ‘We shall not see Christ as he is till he comes to judgment, then and not before we shall see him.’ And then he adds, ‘Every man that has this hope purifies himself, which also argues that he is not pure and perfect, but only in hope.’

[Look how this supposed minister twists the scriptures – the scripture says: When we see him, we will be like him. Every man that has this hope purifies himself as he is pure. 1 John 3:2-3. Note! The scripture does not leave wiggle room in understanding as to the degree of purity – pure like Jesus is pure. But this man dares to say, “pure, but only in hope.” There are several other scriptures that leaves no wiggle room:

We must be righteous as He is righteous, 1 John 3:7.
We must be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect, Mat 5:48.
We must be merciful as He is merciful, Luke 6:36.
But as he who has called you is holy, so you be holy in all manner of conduct, 1 Pet 1:15.
As he is, so are we in this present world, 1 John 4:17.

There is no flexibility and no equivocation in any of these stated requirements.]

Answer. You, where you are, see him not, nor know him as he is, we do believe you; but the saints, the true church whom he is the head of, whom he is in the midst of, and in whom he is. And Christ told his disciples, they had known him; they knew the son, and had the son, and they had the Father also; and he who had not, had not life. And they had handled and seen. And hope in itself is pure, and that is it which purifies man, and makes him pure, as God is pure. The hope now is pure in itself, a distinct thing, and that is to make man pure as God is pure.

Principle. ‘God may justly require his due of man, though man cannot give it.’

[No, if man cannot give what God requires as due, then God is unjust; but of course this man states error, only because he knows that the scriptures require him to be holy, pure, righteous, and perfect, yet he does not measure up; so he makes up this silly statement about God to rationalize his own failures.]

Answer. God requires no more of man than he gives.

Principle. ‘That the Quakers send men to the light within them to be perfected, which is no better than darkness.’

Answer. You who send men to anything, except to the light within them, you keep them out from perfection in utter darkness; and none come out of utter darkness to perfection, but by the light within them; and so growing up in the light, they grow up in what is perfect, and so in the fullness which is Christ, which is the perfection of God.

Principle. Christ saves his people from the guilt of their sins here in the state of justification; the state of the best saints here, is imperfect.’

[The man suffers from the illusion of make-believe instant justification, sainthood, and salvation by only faith in Jesus. Faith results in salvation; faith results in a purified heart; but neither occurs instantly - only after the soul has been purified through obedience to the Spirit of God's commands on the inward cross of self-denial.

If Christ saves us from guilt, then he makes sin easier. If Christ makes sin easier, then he promotes sin. If he promotes sin, then Christ is evil. If he is evil, he is not Christ; therefore he does not save people from their guilt of sin; only the devil impersonating Christ saves people from the guilt of their sins.

Christ forgives sins of the past, and forgives the sins a seeker of his changing, purifying grace, while the seeker is trying to follow and repent. But if a believer is not seeking to be freed from sin, if that believer does not feel guilt for his sins, which motivate him to seek the purifying grace of God, then that believer is condemned; and if such a believer dies in his sins, he will be banned from heaven.]

Answer. Who are justified are saved from the guilt of sin; and who commit sin feel the guilt, and cannot say they are justified in the committing of it; for he who saves, sanctifies, redeems, and destroys the devil and his works, and death, where he has power, where he keeps up his authority. And if the best saints here are imperfect, then they have not been brought out of Adam's state in the transgression; for a saint is one who is sanctified, and one who is redeemed, and one who comes to know the works of the devil destroyed, and who is washed, and cleansed, and sanctified through the name of the Lord; and what justifies takes away both sin and its guilt; for, as it is written, ‘he shall save his people from their sins,’ and from the guilt, and from the wretched state.

Principle. ‘Surely they cannot be perfect here or hereafter in equality, but only in quality.’

Answer. Christ makes no distinction in his words, but said, ‘Be you perfect, even as your heavenly Father is,’ and ‘be you merciful as he is;’ and ‘as he is so are we.’ And what is perfect and merciful, as he is perfect and merciful, is in equality with the same thing which is of God and from him.

[We must be righteous as He is righteous, 1 John 3:7. We must be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect, Mat 5:48. We must be merciful as He is merciful, Luke 6:36. We must become pure as He is pure. 1 John 3:2-3. But as he who has called you is holy, so you be holy in all manner of conduct, 1 Pet 1:15-16. As he is, so are we in this present world. 1 John 4:17. There is no flexibility and no equivocation in any of these stated requirements.].

Principle. ‘The saints were come to the spirits of just men made perfect, but not on earth.’

[Refers to: But you have come to mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men [past] made perfect, Heb 12:22-23. This happens to a saint while still alive on this earth, when you are translated into the Kingdom of Heaven, in the Spirit you enter the company of the angels, other saints in the light, and the Father and Son. You share the inheritance of the saints in the light, dwelling in the light that no man can approach.

This is further testimony to: That which we have seen and heard we declare to you, so that you may also have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7. All of this occurs to saints while still on the earth.]

Answer. The just men's spirits that led them to give forth scriptures was the spirit of God, and that was perfect; and was what while they were upon earth the saints were come to, which was Christ the end of all words, and so to God, the Judge of all the earth.

Philip Taverner, called Preacher of the Word, in his book called ‘The Quakers' Rounds.’ These are his Principles.

Principle. ‘We distinguish between the essential word, and the declarative word; we own Christ to be the essential, and the scripture to be the letter.’

Answer. The scripture tells us that Christ is the word; the scriptures of truth that were given forth from the spirit of truth, were the words of God, in whom they end, in Christ the word. And you talk of a declarative word, and the scripture you call a history; and you call it a creed, and you call it a catalogue; and these titles and names you have given to the scripture of truth, the words of God; as I said before, the scriptures of truth are the words of God, given forth from the spirit of God, which end in Christ; and they do not speak of a declarative word, only you in your subtle, imagined distinctions.

Principle. ‘There is a two-fold coming of the gospel, the one in word, the other in power.’

Answer. The blind people you would here make believe that the word was not the power, which word and power are one, for Christ is the word, and Christ is the power of God; his name is called the power of God, and he who ministers the word, ministers the power of God, and the gospel.

Principle. ‘The saints that stood upon mount Zion, that followed the Lamb, those saints that were without guile before the throne of God, are to be understood in the justification and not in sanctification, that are spoken of in the Revelations.’

[This man thinks he is justified by his belief, but he knows he is not sanctified, even though he calls himself a saint; evidently he thinks he is an unsanctified saint, which is an oxymoron. So, he tries to distinguish between justification and sanctification, which are one.

But worse: Because he knows he is not sanctified, he wants to judge the 144,000 to be unsanctified also. He is so arrogant, he cannot even imagine the 144,000 to have more stature in Christ than himself.]

Answer. Here you have manifested yourself to be an accuser of the brethren who are justified, and said to be without fault. Now they who are justified, are sanctified and justified; it was said, in their mouths was no guile; they were not defiled; and now these that have no guile, and are justified, and were not defiled with women, such are sanctified. So that you judge of things that are too mighty for you; and meddles with things that are too weighty, and brings judgment upon your own head; whose measure is measured, and weights are tried; and you are of them that are found too light.

Principle. ‘He who is born of God sins not after the same sort as those who are of the devil.’

[This is the scripture he wrests to his own destruction: He who commits sin is of the devil; he who is born of God does not sin. 1 John 3:8-9.

This is a pathetic attempt to preserve the illusion of being born again and still sinning. Now, he has invented, out of thin air, two different categories of sin – one for those still sinning, but imagining themselves to be born of God, and a second for those who are of the devil.

This is a very creative doctrine, of which the devil highly approves. So those born of God tell good lies but it is not like those evil heathen that don’t come to church on Sunday who tell bad lies; what a concept: good sinners, and bad sinners. This is why thousands of decent people are repulsed by Christianity today – the hypocrisy of the people who pretend to be religious and righteous and favored by God, who lie, cheat, steal, curse, swear, hate, rage, etc. – in full view of their neighbors and associates. ]

Answer. He who commits sin is the slave of sin, John 8:34; and he who commits sin is of the devil; and he who is born of God does not commit sin, for he cannot, because he is born of God, born of that nature which cannot sin; and those who sin are of the devil, of the same nature of their father; but he who is born of God does commit sin at no rate, for he is of the same nature of his Father.

Principle. ‘As John said: as he is, so are we in this present world, that scripture, said he, cannot be so in the latitude of it.’

[Here he is denying scripture again. Yet he wants us to believe that scripture is the spirit and scripture is the rule; which if so, then he can't believe the rules and is not subject to them.]

Answer. I believe you; for from the men of your generation, it was not given forth; but they who are the sons of God understand it as it is, and believe it as it speaks.

Principle. ‘Christ was holy from his conception, so we are not,’ said he, ‘but we are sanctified in time. Christ was holy, and so we are not, for there still remains the indwelling of sin in us.’

[This man is depending on Paul's description of a believer's progress. Paul described the beginning: If then I do what I don't intend to do, then I consent [in my mind] that the law is good; now then it is no longer I who sin, but the sin that remains in me. Rom 7:16-17.

He like many sinning believers, take this scripture to mean that Paul was always a sinner. But Paul passed through that beginning state that he was writing to illustrate the progress of Christian growth:

Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Phil 3:15

until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; Eph 4:13

Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Col 1:28

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Cor 7:1

However we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: 1 Cor 2:6

Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. Col 1:13

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ who lives in me. Gal 2:20.

Paul said he received the gospel through the revelation of Jesus Christ, and God was pleased to reveal his son in me.

So Paul (and others) had been delivered from sin, had been translated into the Kingdom of Christ;

Paul further had the revelation of Jesus Christ within himself, and was living in union with Christ.]

Answer. And some were sanctified from the womb, and some children were holy that were born of the believers. Christ in the male and in the female, is as he was in his eternal generation; and is the same, and remains; and is the sanctification, and he sanctifies the unsanctified sons of Adam in the transgression, and Christ changes them, and makes them like himself; and they who have sanctification without [by supposed right] and not within [by possession], are hypocrites.

Principle. ‘That the saints are complete in point of justification, and not in sanctification.’

Answer. They who are not complete in sanctification, are not complete in justification, for they are one; they who are complete in the one, are complete in the other; and so far as a man is sanctified, so far is he justified, and no farther; for the same that sanctifies a man justifies him; for the same that is his sanctification, is his justification, and his wisdom, and his redemption. He who knows one of them, knows all; he who does not feel one of them, feels none of them at all, for they are all one.

Principle. ‘Faith justifies only instrumentally; neither does it justify instrumentally as a work wrought in us by the spirit.’

Answer. The man is blind; he is angry there, and fretting himself about things that are too weighty for him, about things that he doesn’t knows; for faith is the gift of God which purifies the heart, which brings people to have access to God: in that, and by what purifies men, men are justified, and in that is virtue; by the hearing of that, men receive the spirit. So that this is confusion, and contrary to the scripture, and disproved by it; for you are justified through faith, and by the spirit, in which men please God, and without which they cannot; therefore that is instrumental. And in that they have victory, and in that they have unity one with another, and in it have access to God. But said he, ‘faith does not justify instrumentally by any virtue that is in it any more than is in love.’ Love and faith are one, without faith there is not love. Love is the fruit of faith, flows from it, without it there is no unity, and without faith there is no victory, and without victory there is no love; and it justifies, and is wrought by the spirit.

Principle. ‘A perfect conformity to the law of God written, in the strength and power of grace, the spirit working all in us and for us; all this is no more than the righteousness of the law.’

Answer. That is the end of the law that brings to the righteousness of the law, and to a perfect conformity to it, and fulfils it; that is the seed, Christ in the male and in the female, by whom grace comes, by Jesus Christ, which brings to live in the righteousness of it, which is the righteousness of faith, by which the spirit is received, which works all in people, and for them, and which ends the law.

The Brownists' Principles.

Principle. ‘They never heard God's voice from heaven, nor saw his shape:’ and yet they affirm, ‘they have the same power and spirit that the apostles had, though much below;’ and that ‘they have the word abiding in them.’

Answer. You who never heard the voice of God, nor saw his shape, have not seen him who is a spirit, nor have you his power, nor his word abiding in you; for they who have the spirit of God, and the power of God, and the word of God abiding in them; with the spirit of God, with the power of God, see God's shape; and they who have God's word abiding in them, hear the voice of God; for God is the word, and God will dwell in them, and walk in them.

Principle. ‘That they are brought to the church that is in God, the pillar and ground of truth, where there is neither spot nor wrinkle, nor any such thing.’

Answer. And yet you never heard the voice of God! How can you be brought to the church that is in God, and never have heard the voice of God? For none come to the son but through the drawings of the Father; and none know the drawings of the Father, but they who hear his voice. The Jews that came not to the son, Christ told them, they had not known the voice of God; and none come to him, but who the Father draws.

Principle. ‘We do not look for any such thing as revelation from heaven, or speaking as they are moved, or waiting for the power, as the apostles did; we say we do not look for any such thing.’

Answer. This shows that you have not received the grace, for the grace comes by revelation; and that you have not received the son, for the son comes by revelation; nor have you known the Father whom the son reveals; you have not come to the Holy Ghost whom the saints witnessed, that led them to speak forth scriptures, for no prophecy of the scriptures came by the will of man. So you are among those men that have the scriptures in their wills, and lack the thing that the scriptures were given forth by, that is, the Holy Ghost; for holy men of God were moved to speak them forth, who learned them of God and spoke them forth as the spirit gave them utterance. Therefore, how can you say, that you have come to the church in God, and wait neither for the power nor revelation as the saints did, and were in? For if you have all the scriptures, and do not have the power, you do not have revelation, and you do not have the Holy Ghost; for the scriptures, are not known except by revelation, and they are revealed by the spirit that gave them forth: and though men have all the scriptures, yet the son is not known but by revelation of the Father.

Principle. ‘The scripture is the gospel, the scripture is the light, the scripture is the word.’

Answer. The scriptures are the words of God given forth from the spirit of God, learned from him: the gospel is the power of God, the scripture declares it. A man may have the form and deny the power, and so deny the gospel. Christ is the light of the world, the life and the light of men, by whom the world was made; and many have the scriptures, but deny the light, the life and power of it, Christ Jesus, who is the life, and power, and authority of them.

Principle. ‘That they knew no law of God against praying and preaching by an hour-glass; and that the apostles did perform the ordinances of God at set times; and Daniel and David prayed customarily, and how this can be said to be will-worship, and to be seen of men, we shall leave it to the Lord.’

[Will-worship is worship according to the plan, agenda, and schedule of man. Worship in sprit and truth is worship dictated by the Holy Spirit, at the moment, without an agenda, without anyone speaking, preaching, teaching, reading, or praying, unless the Holy Spirit prompts them to do so at that moment.]

Answer. The Lord judges it to be will-worship, what limits the holy one to an hour-glass; and the spirit of the Lord who taught the saints to pray, never limited itself to an hour-glass. So you by an hour-glass pray and preach as the Papists with their beads, so what limits the Lord to a set time, are traditions and vain customs of the heathen, and traditions of men, which always limited the spirit; which spirit gave freedom to the Just in everyone, who said, quench it not, nor limit it; but knocked down vain customs and traditions of men, which were set up by men who had quenched the spirit in themselves, and would limit the Holy One in others. And such were always judged of the Lord, and by those who had his spirit, to be idolaters, and in the will-worship, and not in the spirit, which are got up since the days of the apostles.

Continue To Next Rebuttals

This web site's purpose is to show how to become
free from sin
by benefiting from the changing power of God through the cross,
which leads to union with God in his Kingdom.